Lease says "No Overnight Guests"... is the apartment worth it? (rental, security deposit)

[Kim in FL]

Originally Posted by virgode

These two sites are for Florida...nothing prohibits over night guests.

http://www.floridabar.org/TFB/TFBRes...df?OpenElement
Occasional overnight guests are permitted. An occasional overnight guest is one who does not staymore than _______ nights in any calendar month (If left blank, 7). Landlord’s written approval is required to allow anyone else to occupy thePremises

http://cdn.publicinterestnetwork.org...Rights-2.1.pdf
3. No one but tenant and immediate family may live in apartment: this may prohibit subleasing, pets, and extended visits by friends or relatives.

This is the part I read...83.56 (b)



(b) If such noncompliance is of a nature that the tenant should be given an opportunity to cure it, deliver a written notice to the tenant specifying the noncompliance, including a notice that, if the noncompliance is not corrected within 7 days from the date the written notice is delivered, the landlord shall terminate the rental agreement by reason thereof. Examples of such noncompliance include, but are not limited to, activities in contravention of the lease or this act such as having or permitting unauthorized pets, guests, or vehicles; parking in an unauthorized manner or permitting such parking; or failing to keep the premises clean and sanitary. The notice shall be adequate if it is in substantially the following form:


[SIZE=4]con·tra·ven·tion[/SIZE]

   /ˌkɒntrəˈvɛnʃən/ Show Spelled[kon-truh-ven-shuhn] Show IPA
noun an act of contravening; action counter to something; violation or opposition.

[CaitWil]

We are actually in New Jersey; I haven't been able to find anything in NJ law or guidelines about overnight guests online.
We're having a lawyer friend review the lease for us, but she works in patents so I don't know what she'll say about the guests thing.

I know everyone keeps saying the LL is creepy, but he really seems very far from a creep. Speaking with him wasn't too difficult (except for this), everything else he said seemed fair to us.
If the image helps, we think he looks and acts a bit like Carl from Up.
He was a building inspector at some point, and I think he wants to keep his building to code as much as possible -- so obviously, he doesn't want anyone living there long-term who isn't on the lease, or have too many people living in an apartment at once. We appreciate that he goes to great lengths to take care of his building, even though he may be in his 70's or 80's.

We are currently asking him if he can change the lease to limit the amount of time and number of guests we can have during a month, and if a guest stays more than a certain length of time to need approval from him or possibly incur a charge.
We'll see how that goes.
I want to make sure he is protected too, but I do want to have an overnight guest every once in a while!
I actually do consider having overnight guests to be part of my "quiet enjoyment" -- this would be my home, and I would like to have guests stay occasionally. I don't want to worry about how late a person stays, or if there's an emergency and someone needs a place to stay for the night. That's the sort of thing that gets me worried... I like to be there for a person if they need me.
Apparently the LL likes us and would like to have us as tenants, so I am thinking maybe we have a chance at changing it slightly.

I know everyone has horror stories about overnight guests turned into extra tenants (and I've had roommates in the past who have moved in boyfriends, I know how it goes with people not under the lease, ugh) But we're not going to move anyone into the other bedroom. That's actually for both of our hobbies and relaxing, though I've been calling it the "get the hell away from me space". This is the first time we're moving in together, so I sort of feel like we'll be sick enough of each other without having an additional person in the mix.

He likes the place, I like it too.
Just want to make sure we can have people over without stressing everyone out.
That's really the only thing in the lease that bothers me.

[CaitWil]

My boyfriend and I are both architects (the LL knows this), we're both home-repair types (the bf much more so - and we've also offered to help the LL make any basic repairs around the apartment if the need arises), and we're both neat-nicks.

We don't destroy buildings as a matter of professional conduct and just plain common courtesy.

I think (I'm sure everyone says this, though) that for a couple of 20-somethings, we are pretty ideal tenants. We've both got good jobs, we're quiet people, we can (and will) help fix anything in the apartment if the LL would like the help.
I don't think it's too much to ask for to allow an occasional guest sometimes.

[STT Resident]

Originally Posted by CaitWil

I don't think it's too much to ask for to allow an occasional guest sometimes.

It's not at all. The point I've been making all along is that (unless state law specifically says that a "no overnight visitor" clause is illegal, and nothing which anyone has quoted so far seems to support that) a private LL can stipulate pretty much whatever he wants in a lease where this is concerned. In my particular case I spelled it out to create a compromise after not specifically stating it created a problem.

The main thrust of your thread was, "is this legal" and that's what's being addressed. Obviously this is a point of contention amongst responders and in order to have your question answered you should probably consult a qualified attorney who'll give you the definitive answer.

No need to document why you're good tenants. Unfortunately it's the bad tenants who force landlords to go to extremes in crossing every "t" and dotting every "i" to protect themselves and their property.

If your LL will agree to a compromise then all will be well. Otherwise you carry on the hunt for a place that both you and your boyfriend love and where the lease doesn't contain such a clause. All the best!

[wireyourworld]

I think you are doing the right thing bringing it up to your potential landlord before the fact. Perhaps he's old-fashioned and doesn't like unwed people sleeping together. :-) Perhaps he never considered that it might just be mom and dad visiting for a night or two. I wish more tenants would read their leases so carefully with full intention to abide by them.

[Kim in FL]

Originally Posted by CaitWil

My boyfriend and I are both architects (the LL knows this), we're both home-repair types (the bf much more so - and we've also offered to help the LL make any basic repairs around the apartment if the need arises), and we're both neat-nicks.

We don't destroy buildings as a matter of professional conduct and just plain common courtesy.

I think (I'm sure everyone says this, though) that for a couple of 20-somethings, we are pretty ideal tenants. We've both got good jobs, we're quiet people, we can (and will) help fix anything in the apartment if the LL would like the help.
I don't think it's too much to ask for to allow an occasional guest sometimes.

I don't it's too much either, but don't be surprised if he says no.

I can understand both sides and personally wouldn't agree to that clause no matter how much I loved the place. But, there is never harm in asking.

Please keep us updated as to the outcome.

[Lacerta]

My lease specifies guests be present no more than 14 days in a 6 month period, total. I think something like that is very reasonable. And I tell the tenants when signing the lease with them that I'm not at the house with a clicker counting how many days someone is there, but if someone is going to come stay with them for weeks, or if a girlfriend/boyfriend is going to be staying over 5 times a week or something, we need to have them come into the office and sign some paperwork. We at least need to know their name, home address, where they work, and their SSN in case we have to evict them.

[ipoetry]

While I think No Overnight Guests Allowed is a bit strong, as a previous landlady I will say that most of our problems with tenants came not from them, themselves, but from relatives and/or friends who came to stay and never left. I can understand where the landlord is coming from though he could have put a limitation into the lease like, No Overnight Guests To Stay For More Than 4 Nights.

[sware2cod]

The OP and significant other sound like ideal tenants, especially if no pets. This landlord should jump for joy to have such tenants and will likely tweak the lease.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by Lacerta

My lease specifies guests be present no more than 14 days in a 6 month period, total. I think something like that is very reasonable. And I tell the tenants when signing the lease with them that I'm not at the house with a clicker counting how many days someone is there, but if someone is going to come stay with them for weeks, or if a girlfriend/boyfriend is going to be staying over 5 times a week or something, we need to have them come into the office and sign some paperwork. We at least need to know their name, home address, where they work, and their SSN in case we have to evict them.

I believe the "no overnight guests at all" clause is there specifically so the landlord does not have to "stand there with a clicker" and snoop on his tenants. If the lease allows a guest to stay "xx days" per month, year, etc, then the landlord really does have to "stand there with a clicker" every day to gather proof that the tenant is violating that condition. Even then, the tenant is absolutely going to say in court that their guest only stayed "XX days"...

As a landlord, if there aren't any problems with the neighbors, and my property isn't being damaged, I could really care less about guests. But if there ARE problems, I need to protect myself with clauses that allow me to bounce a bad tenant quickly.

It would be really silly to bounce a good tenant because they had a guest ONE time.