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besides, do you think for one minute that I am going to trust the dumbell super of my building with a key to my apartment................umm, guess again...
boy can i relate---gave duplicate keys to landlady only one time in my life----on a day that i was home sick and hubby had the car--i woke up mid morning to sound of someone in my drawers downstairs---grabbing a bb bat i tiptoed downstairs and their was my 60 yr old landlady going thru my china cabinet drawers(later found my gold band and earrings were missing from shelf near dr table)-----never,ever gave copy of key again in future til i vacated
I would be home however, if certain repairs have to be made.
I don't care what people say, i do not believe in giving out keys.
Trust me, as a previous tenant with one whack job of a LL and his wife, I was nervous about the whole key thing. When we first signed the lease we were in another state, but did have a couple of our friends swing by to check out the place. They said it was great, go ahead and sign. Worst mistake we ever did.
Our LL's were nuts, but they took the cake when his wife came over to our house, we were in CA visiting family, she hopped the fence into our pool area, broke the cover on the pool, then broke into the house with her keys and drank the beer and ate a ton of food. She had a mini party at the house. We were livid when we got home. The neighbors informed us what was going on. Once home, we filed a police report and changed the locks. We gave one key to the husband and he told us, yes it got crazy over there, and he was sorry. Won't happen again, and then his wife went to rehab. Never had a problem after that.
Edited to add...we had the pool cover replaced, and the cleaning done in my house to clean up the mess, we billed the LL. He paid.
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[/color]I am lucky then that our LL doesn't require us to give keys, because I wouldn't anyway.
Besides what are they going to do, punish me...
I also don't care care what NYC laws and regulations or whatever, no one is getting a key to my apartment, not today, not tomorrow, not ever.
if there is an emergency such as a fire, they dont need my keys, the fire dept is fully capable of breaking down the door.
Ok, so you own a coop in New York City. Your attitude though is one of a typical long-term, low-rent, rent-stabilzed tenant in New York City. It's that audacious, all-powerful, attitude of entitlement that the "protected ones" have. And you keep referring to the coop management as your "LL".
Let me take an educated guess. Before you bought the apartment, you were living there as a rent-stabilized tenant for many years paying a very low rent. Am I right? And I betcha that the coop sponsor (your former LL who owned the unsold apartments) gave you a great below the market price deal on the apartment just to get you out of his hair.
For those of you in the rest of the country, this is the attitude that a rent control system breeds.
well, our LL does not request them, so that is a good thing, besides my apartment is co-op, I own it, so no one is certainly getting a key.
You own your apartment, but you are responding to a rental thread, talking about not ever giving your LL your key?? Did I miss something? If you own, you don't have a LL. Are you talking about a Super??
You are incorrect. That the LL does not have anyone's key nor requested them does not change the law. IF the LL requests the keys, they must be given - according to NY statute:
New York State's Multiple Dwelling Law, Section 51-C, gives tenants the right to install and maintain a separate lock from the original installed by the building, but the law also requires that the tenant provide a duplicate key to the landlord or the landlord's agent, if it is requested.
Just because your LL had not requested the keys in any of his 5 buildings does not change the law. And the last time I checked, Brooklyn is still part of NYC. NY State Code applies unless the city code is more stringent. Absent finding this issue addressed specifically in city statutes, the state code applies.
You're right. NY law requires the tenant to give a key to the LL. Even a rent-stabilized tenant. So the problem is not the law.
The problem is the practical enforcement of the law. If this tenant refuses to give me a key, and I expect that she will refuse (for no reason other than to be a pain in the ass) then I have to seek legal action. That means going through the expense, and expending the time and effort, to hire a lawyer and go to court. No doubt the judge will order her to give me a key. But then what happens when the next day or next month or next whatever she changes the lock cylinder and of course doesn't tell me? If and when I do find out then I have to start the process over again? and again?
It's really harassment. But there are no consequences to the tenant.
Green, as a LL myself, this is how I would handle the key issue (and i'm in NYC):
I would get a locksmith to come over and change the lock and I would give one key to the tenant while informing the tenant that they key I had just wasn't working and I didn't want her to be locked out because of the non-working lock. At the same time, I would hand the tenant a copy of the section of law stating that the LL is required to have a key. I would also hand her, in writing both copies of my notice of intent to repair with day/time and have her sign one copy (for my records). My notice would state she is free to hire someone to repair the issue at her expense at a time outside the normal business hours; said repair person subject to my approval based on his/her qualifications/licenses and the actual repair they intended to do. Absent notice in writing of her intent to hire someone before the scheduled repair time stated in the notice, the repair will take place as stated above with regard to time and date.
The repair needs to be made. Further delay is causing the repair costs to increase.
As to the issue of her repeatedly changing the lock: I would state that the current lock is defective and is being replaced with a quality lock that is guaranteed and, should the key not fit in the future, the lock will again be replaced as part of the warranty; however, if it is found to not be the same lock that you installed, the tenant will be charged for replacement, having not provided you with a key.
I would also post a notice in the entry that all service/repair persons are to check in with the building super/LL and no work shall be done without owner's approval, regardless who has hired them.
You're right. NY law requires the tenant to give a key to the LL. Even a rent-stabilized tenant. So the problem is not the law.
The problem is the practical enforcement of the law. If this tenant refuses to give me a key, and I expect that she will refuse (for no reason other than to be a pain in the ass) then I have to seek legal action. That means going through the expense, and expending the time and effort, to hire a lawyer and go to court. No doubt the judge will order her to give me a key. But then what happens when the next day or next month or next whatever she changes the lock cylinder and of course doesn't tell me? If and when I do find out then I have to start the process over again? and again?
It's really harassment. But there are no consequences to the tenant.
If you see it as that much of a problem why don't you evict the tenant? She has violated both the state law and the lease, isn't that grounds, even with rent control, for an eviction?
An interesting side note occurred to me. Here in Texas a landlord is required to provide a keyless deadbolt on all exterior doors, in addition to the locking deadbolt or door lock. This gives the tenant the ability to lock themselves into the residence, and be assured that no one will enter while they are sleeping or in the shower, etc. It assures privacy when privacy is needed, and gives the tenant the ability to accept or refuse admittance of repairmen when they are present. But it cannot be locked whenever the tenant leaves the premises.
It is a compromise that might improve some situations.
Ok, so you own a coop in New York City. Your attitude though is one of a typical long-term, low-rent, rent-stabilzed tenant in New York City. It's that audacious, all-powerful, attitude of entitlement that the "protected ones" have. And you keep referring to the coop management as your "LL".
Let me take an educated guess. Before you bought the apartment, you were living there as a rent-stabilized tenant for many years paying a very low rent. Am I right? And I betcha that the coop sponsor (your former LL who owned the unsold apartments) gave you a great below the market price deal on the apartment just to get you out of his hair.
For those of you in the rest of the country, this is the attitude that a rent control system breeds.
NO, YOU ARE NOT RIGHT.!!!!!!
The Co-Op management is the LL of the building.
I rented an apartment on the first floor of the building for 4 years. I was friends with the tenants on the 4th floor, they were divorcing and wanted to get rid of the apartment, in turn the bank let me "assume" the mortgage releasing them out of the mortgage and placing me on it. So no, I was not a rent stablized tenant, my smarty pants....
**********STICKS TONGUE OUT*******
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