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Old 04-04-2012, 04:08 PM
jw2
 
1,028 posts, read 884,009 times
Reputation: 1520

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificFlights View Post
The first thing anyone entering into real estate needs to know is the difference between a squatter, a tenant, and a guest. Squatters and guest have very little rights since Squatting is a form of adverse possession and a guest is by a revocable specific invitation. Many times when you hear people talking about squatters this and squatters that, they are not talking about squatters but tenants or guest. It's usually stupidity or just ignorance that makes people call tenants squatters, or they dio it cause it gets the sypmathy posts.

The laws about getting rid of squatters is ptretty simple, but I bet 9 out of 10 people who try it screws it up (agin because they are just stupid or ignorant about the law) and they create a bigger mess that becomes harder and harder to starighten out until they finally need a lawyer. I would sday that if a person used a lawyer or consulted with a lwayer on any squatter or guest issue, the odds are they would have that person out withn a day or two. If they try it on their own based on some crazy idea of what they think it is, it could take months depending on how bad they screw itup.

Legally getting rid of a tenant is a rather simple process because its all spelled out in the laws. Just follow the law and most times its as simple as 1,2 3. It gets complicated as in this case because they don;t know the law and are using personal emotional beliefs to determine their initial actions and that screwed it all up.
In California, there is one other category, "lodger'. From California Tenants - California Department of Consumer Affairs (http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/whois.shtml - broken link)
Quote:
Single lodger in a private residence

A lodger is a person who lives in a room in a house where the owner lives. The owner can enter all areas occupied by the lodger and has overall control of the house.9 Most lodgers have the same rights as tenants.

However, in the case of a single lodger in a house where there are no other lodgers, the owner can evict the lodger without using formal eviction proceedings. The owner can give the lodger written notice that the lodger cannot continue to use the room. The amount of notice must be the same as the number of days between rent payments (for example, 30 days). (See "Tenant's notice to end a periodic tenancy".) When the owner has given the lodger proper notice and the time has expired, the lodger has no further right to remain in the owner's house and may be removed as a trespasser.
The significance of this is you avoid the formal eviction procedure. It is a 30 day notice then the lodger becomes a trespasser. The rights of a trespasser are significantly less that of a tenant. This may include having the ability of locking them out.
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Old 04-04-2012, 04:20 PM
 
4,919 posts, read 10,661,719 times
Reputation: 5788
Ah, but it makes sure you understand that they are still in essence a tenant and there are legal requirments for what and how you do something. The problem we often face is that people rent spaces and subject themself to laws, yet they never find out what those laws are and so they go about accting as if its just Jack and Jill dissagreing over what shoes to wear. The OP didn't even realize they entered into some agreement that was covered under state law. That was their biggest mistake, and their second biggest mistake was acting before knowing what they could do. Every state has some difference in all these areas but one thing that is the exact same in every state is that if you are covered by a set of rules, regulations or laws, you had better know what they are.
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Old 04-04-2012, 06:05 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
800 posts, read 1,293,590 times
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I wouldn't call this a sublease- this is more of renting a room.
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Old 04-04-2012, 06:14 PM
 
4,919 posts, read 10,661,719 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdotAllen View Post
I wouldn't call this a sublease- this is more of renting a room.
Its still a rental scenerio subject to the laws of the state regarding that form of rental. many are arguing that because the OP doesn;t see themself as a landlord, they shouldn;t have to behave as a landlord. What the OP or anyone else thinks means nothing because once they took money under an agreement for a person to live in that space, they became a landlord under the state laws.

Also it is a sublease because the OP is leasing the space. They are not the property owner or agent, they are a tenat so any deal they make is a sub;lease scenerio. The big problem was they didn't have the right to do this according to what they posted so they had a double whammy when things went wrong. The sublease non-paying tenant could have made it very very bad by moving out but telling the actual owner they have full rights under their rental agreement with the original tenant to stay there. that would have essentially cause the original tenant to be in breech of their lease yet by physically moving they wouldn;t be subjected to any more action by the original tenant. The owner's action would be based on the breech by the original tenant. Even if the sub lease tenant actually moved out, all they have to do is say they still live there to cause problems.
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Old 04-05-2012, 08:02 PM
 
6 posts, read 80,221 times
Reputation: 15
She remains gone. Back in the beginning of March we verbally gave her 30 days to find somewhere else. We didn't think we would have to resort to actually start up an eviction. Things weren't THAT bad but still things were uncomfortable. It was at the end or March or near the 30th day (while still avoiding us at home) she left us a note on the stove. It was at this point things became ugly. The note states exactly this:

"I just thought you should know I'm NOT moving out on the 31st. You didn't give me LEAGL NOTICE ( she misspelled Legal like 3 times so she just gave up) and until you do I'm not required to go anywhere. I'm looking for a place and have a job interview Monday I will be gone sooner than later don't worry. Oh and no more packing my stuff - It's against the law. If you continue to I WILL call the police. I was and still am leaving some things for you guys but you don't know what, and may be packing it. I'm staying out of your hair (AKA totally avoiding us) so STOP being mean about this!

We never "packed" her things. We simply placed some of her things that were in my wife's and my bedroom closet, to where all her other stuff was by our front door for the past 7 months. We didn't want her going through my wife's and my stuff to get to hers.

That same day we invited our landlord over to discuss the situation. She advised us to change the locks. We did. We then found out the following day that we weren't supposed to. That's on our landlord. We gave her a written 3 day notice to quit, this included the 30 day eviction notice. And that's also when our guest began to harass my wife and I. She knew we broke the lease by letting someone stay and long as we did. So she used that to her advantage. If she wasn't out after the 3 days notice to quit, my wife and I would be served a 30 day eviction notice. for the remaining 3 days she called my wife and I names to our face and other nonsense. I blatantly ignored her while she yelled in my face. She became so infuriated she started talking to herself it became hysterical and sad at the same time because she was making things up that didn't make sense. While knowing if we said anything back to her she would plant her butt on the couch on the 4th day to purposely get my wife and I evicted.

We stayed quiet and avoided her including locking the bedroom door at night with our cats in there while she was there. Our landlord asked us yesterday if we know where she is. We told her that we didn't know and that her stuff is gone. She legally can still return back up until the 30th of April. But if we're not home, our landlord would have to let her in cause she doesn't have a key. It's not really a great feeling knowing a homeless jobless crazy person can return back to your home at anytime.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Orange County, Hell
114 posts, read 312,849 times
Reputation: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by CKsilver View Post
She remains gone. Back in the beginning of March we verbally gave her 30 days to find somewhere else. We didn't think we would have to resort to actually start up an eviction. Things weren't THAT bad but still things were uncomfortable. It was at the end or March or near the 30th day (while still avoiding us at home) she left us a note on the stove. It was at this point things became ugly. The note states exactly this:

"I just thought you should know I'm NOT moving out on the 31st. You didn't give me LEAGL NOTICE ( she misspelled Legal like 3 times so she just gave up) and until you do I'm not required to go anywhere. I'm looking for a place and have a job interview Monday I will be gone sooner than later don't worry. Oh and no more packing my stuff - It's against the law. If you continue to I WILL call the police. I was and still am leaving some things for you guys but you don't know what, and may be packing it. I'm staying out of your hair (AKA totally avoiding us) so STOP being mean about this!

We never "packed" her things. We simply placed some of her things that were in my wife's and my bedroom closet, to where all her other stuff was by our front door for the past 7 months. We didn't want her going through my wife's and my stuff to get to hers.

That same day we invited our landlord over to discuss the situation. She advised us to change the locks. We did. We then found out the following day that we weren't supposed to. That's on our landlord. We gave her a written 3 day notice to quit, this included the 30 day eviction notice. And that's also when our guest began to harass my wife and I. She knew we broke the lease by letting someone stay and long as we did. So she used that to her advantage. If she wasn't out after the 3 days notice to quit, my wife and I would be served a 30 day eviction notice. for the remaining 3 days she called my wife and I names to our face and other nonsense. I blatantly ignored her while she yelled in my face. She became so infuriated she started talking to herself it became hysterical and sad at the same time because she was making things up that didn't make sense. While knowing if we said anything back to her she would plant her butt on the couch on the 4th day to purposely get my wife and I evicted.

We stayed quiet and avoided her including locking the bedroom door at night with our cats in there while she was there. Our landlord asked us yesterday if we know where she is. We told her that we didn't know and that her stuff is gone. She legally can still return back up until the 30th of April. But if we're not home, our landlord would have to let her in cause she doesn't have a key. It's not really a great feeling knowing a homeless jobless crazy person can return back to your home at anytime.
I will never trust ANYONE to live in my apartment/home. Hearing these stories makes me see how nasty people truly are. Let's just wait and see if this "guest" of yours returns.
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Boise, ID
5,565 posts, read 10,898,943 times
Reputation: 4979
Most people like this know rental law for the area better than most landlords. They are chain squatters, and will feed off one person as long as they can, using all the legal loopholes they can find, then when someone finally gets them out, they move on to feed on someone else.
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Old 04-06-2012, 01:30 PM
 
483 posts, read 441,320 times
Reputation: 607
Change the locks now and toss her remaining belongings in the trash. Tell the landlord to NOT let her in. You should have done that months ago.
I seriously doubt if this loser without funds will follow through with legal action. Her threats are just a bluff, I'd be willing to bet she has legal problems of her own. In the unlikely event she did take you to court she would need a written agreement and proof of her rent payments. Your original post indicates she has neither.
People like her spend their lives looking for the next human doormat to walk all over. She will quickly move on and find another sucker.
Consider it a lesson learned in the school of hard knocks.
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Orange County, Hell
114 posts, read 312,849 times
Reputation: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by southking500 View Post
Change the locks now and toss her remaining belongings in the trash. Tell the landlord to NOT let her in. You should have done that months ago.
I seriously doubt if this loser without funds will follow through with legal action. Her threats are just a bluff, I'd be willing to bet she has legal problems of her own. In the unlikely event she did take you to court she would need a written agreement and proof of her rent payments. Your original post indicates she has neither.
People like her spend their lives looking for the next human doormat to walk all over. She will quickly move on and find another sucker.
Consider it a lesson learned in the school of hard knocks.
I like your thinking - it has very good points. Many people don't follow through with their threats of legal action, but even if she does, she will have the prove that she made any payments. If she doesn't, you can deny she ever paid you anything. You can just say that she was a guest who was staying there for free.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:54 PM
 
5,500 posts, read 6,665,418 times
Reputation: 6641
Just chiming in here---

If she's never paid you anything, or at least never paid in anything documentable, like a check, MO, or you gave a receipt, then she is a guest, not a tennant.

Just try to think ahead a little and not be so afraid of the 'guest'. What good would it do her if you were evicted? Then, she could take over the apt? hardly---she would have to make an application, pass a credit check, etc, etc, then she would have to pay rent---which is exactly why she is there to begin with.


I've learned not to bluff so easily. 90% of the time, charges are either never pressed or dropped. Your problem is you're too nice. Just throw the bum out. The worst that can happen is she files a complaint/lawsuit, charges, whatever. hey, that all cost money, which she apparently doesn't have. The legal system turns slowly, even if she manages to file charges and they do carry through, it can take a year or more for it to come to court. So what's the LL going to do---evict a paying tenant for a bum with no visable means of support? quit worrying----

change the locks

pack up her remaining junk and leave it with the manager

start looking for a new apt

guard your cats---don't leave food where she could tamper with it, also, your own food, the fridge, etc


Try to provoke a screaming match with her with witnesses present, friends, neighbors, etc, then call police she's threatening you, get it on record. How do you know she doesn't carry a gun or other weapon? Claim self-defense, or is that allowed in CA? Here in TX it is!


Just get rid of her, she won't come back if she realizes you're not playing her game anymore!

Good luck!
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