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1. The people telling you to get a lawyer are correct.
2. It is unclear whether you have been sued. You refer to "a letter from a law firm suing me for $8000 dollars for damages". Being sued is a court process, but it's hard to tell here whether they have actually filed a case in court and what you have received is a summons and complaint, or they are just telling you you owe the money and demanding that you pay, or even what is called "simulation of legal process", which is a wrongful act in which a collection attorney will send papers made up to look like a lawsuit notification but is really just a way to deceive you to pay what may not be a valid claim.
You need to clarify this, and also clarify for certain whether there is any legal court deadline you need to comply with.
"No good deed goes unpunished on earth when the Tenant from Hell is involved and YOU are trying to make it to Heaven!!!"
I had my first house I ever owned.
2400 squarefoot, 5 bedroom, 2 bathroom, Walk-in Master Closet with many other nice amenities. In a very good middle class neighborhood. Wooden Fenced in concrete backyard, balcony on 2nd floor, Gas fireplace...ceiling fans...picture window in eat-in kitchen
Before I moved to AZ, I spent 5 days cleaning it up the house.
1) Except for a hallway, a bedroom and the bathroom upstairs, and the kitchen, house had been completed re-painted 2 years prior.
2) Plumbing was good.
3) WasherDryer were 10 years old (House was built in 2000, we bought in 2004, moved to AZ in August of 2013).
4) Fridge, Stove, Over-the-Range Microwave, Dishwasher, same age. Freezer in Garage was maybe 2 years old (key note)
5) I had Home Warranty to cover all appliances (they had replace the Water Heater with brand new one that June)
6) Carpet was worn, but not well worn (no holes, ink stain, here or there)
7) Had cleaned up house, especially the kitchen... but left some items in the dishwasher (key note).
9) I cleaned up and mopped up behind the fridge, (key note) but did not clean the shelves in the fridge.
10) I cleaned and scrubbed the bath rooms (Master bathroom had JacuzziShower combo tub and dual vanities)
11) Wooden fence had 2 missing panels... and the gate was not working
12) I left a decent $900 Value City living room suit with nice rug, and a $1200.00 Queen Mattress with light pee-stains from my 2 year old baby (no smell, only pee stains) which I had posted on CL. (KEY NOTES)
13) I also had left a nice "Giant Brand" 28 inch bike, exercise equipment (Ball, old Stair-stepper) nice shoes, and clothes, boxes of comic books, boxes of clothes, Wooden Baby furnture and other personal items that I could not buy storage for, NICELY STACKED to the sides of the garage. You could literally park a car and a motorcycle in the middle of the garage regardless of the items, which were all neatly stacked to the sides (ALL KEY NOTES).
While I was cleaning, I placed an add in Craigs list and then entertained potential renters. I got a couple of "carpenter" types asking to rent for $750 while they fixed the house up... based off the pictures on CL that I left (very blurry pictures, mind you)... I think they were confused by the brown stickers on the pink wall of my daughters room, and assumed the house had holes in the walls... I was asking for $1250.00 and had a nice couple with good reference sort of argue and fuss about the price (thinking back, I should have came down by $100.00 like they asked)... but I said "no"
Handed the keys to my father-in-law, got on the plane to AZ and waited.
At my job, couple of stressful events occurred.
Meanwhile, it was suggested that I rent to a Section 8 tenant. "Why not" I was told "at least the money is guaranteed". Mind you my CL add did not discourage Section 8. My father got a call and met a lady over at the house. First observation is that "the lady had a van full of kids... " not a mini-van, a full blown passenger van.
She looked at the house, and said she liked it... and I had my father give her the application. My full intention was to go through the complete process with back ground checks etc...
2 days later... I get a call, in the middle of my work day. Its her, the lady, in tears, while she is sitting at the Section 8 (Housing Authority) office.
RED FLAG 1: "I have to be out of my place, in 48 hours"
RED FLAG 2: "My landlord is discriminating against my son"
RED FLAG 3: "I am suing my LAND LORD for discrimination against my son"
She then begs me to rent the house... calls upon my Christian Godliness...and begs me to rent from me.
AS I said above... I was desperate I moved out in August, it was October. 2 months of Mortgage, plus to months of AZ 1650 rent... plus serious situations at work... I caved...
My father walked her and her cousin through the house again.
RED FLAG 4: Crazy COUSIN offered me $50K (house was worth $135K in the shape it was in, is now worth $176K on market if it was in tip-top condition).
Housing Authority wanted My FIL (Father-in-law) to replace the light switch panels in 2 of the rooms, replace the missing boardspanels on the fence... and take care of a few odds and ends before they would agree to the voucher
HA (Housing Authority) would only allow maximum combined Rent (her responsibility plus their voucher) of $1063... which was below the $1090 I was paying on the Mortgage at the time.
SHE refused to pay full deposit of $1200 I asked for... and would only pay $600 (siting that the work needed for the house was $600.00) it was not. My last words to her were "The deposit protects you and it protects me: It makes YOU keep the house in order so that I HAVE to pay it back, and if you do not, it at LEAST gives me a means to start the fixup process" RED FLAG 5
Because she is literally on CLOUD 9 that she has a place to stay she
1) Agrees to maintain, not damage, and watch my items in the garage. The verbiage I exchanged with her was "because you are paying $100 less than the required rent, I need you to let me use that $100 as sort of a storage fee. Her words: "Ok Mr. ####, I will take care of your stuff, you don't have to worry about a thing!!!"
2) Agreed to pay me $250 for the living room suite. Her words: "Mr ####, I will need some furniture, ONCE I GET THE SETTLEMENT FROM THIS LAW SUITE, I will pay you".
3) Despite my warning her that it had a small (about the 6 inches in diameter) pee stain on it, but did not smell, she agreed to buy the mattress for my asking process of $750.00 (it was a 1 year old mattress). Her words "I will buy the mattress when I get my settlement, Mr.## don't worry about the pee stain, I have a special needs child who can sleep on it, because she sometimes wets the bed".
MY FIL told me she had a DOG with her... a German Shepard. ON THE PHONE all the way from Arizona, I told her "No DOGS". She tried to convince me that the dog was a Service Dog for her son who had seizures (the one who was "being discriminated" against). I still said "NO dogs". Her last words to me, on that move in day, just like virtually everything she said to be before, and everything after... were a LIE. "You will not regret this Mr. ##, than you SOOOO much" RED FLAGS 7-9
October, November, go by.
Around December, I get a FACEBOOK message from one of my neighbors (I had never EVER, in 9 years, had any issues with my neighbors to either side or behind). They were complaining about the dog, a ROTTWEILER, barking and getting out...I call my neighbor to get more details. I then call, and leave text messages with the tenant.
January comes, February comes. I travel back to my home town for officiate a wedding. *SIGH*. I stop by, to get my Bike and to check on some stuff in the garage (I left messages and called and was told to "Go head and come on over". I knock on the door, step inside house foyer. Living room seems crammed with kids, and furniture… Common Landlord sense says that I should have inspected the house then… but I REFUSED to think il of the tenant despite the red flags and warnings. One of her Sons lets me into the garage….
Garage, looked like a night mare… full of junk and furniture… my stuff was knocked over and pressed against the wall. My living room suite, looked like someone had just tossed it into the garage. Closer inspection… the wood had DEEP guages in it from where it was dragged out the front door along the concrete of the porch…and tossed in the garage. My bike… was no where to be found, no matter how much I dug through the junk. When I asked her about it, she insisted that it was in the garage. I needed the rent, I did not ask again. Before I left to flew back to AZ, I entertained a possible Property Manager… for lunch. I decided that 10% was too much to give up. I should have taken the deal.. My life would have been a million times easier.
In March, 2014, I noticed an issue with the direct deposit for rent. A gentle message of "Hey, I noticed somethng with the rent, if you do not get this message, I can have my FIL stop by with a NOTE (not notice, not eviction) on the door" voice message ended up with me receiving a very confrontational "I don't owe you anything, section 8 knows my situation, talk to them" call (RED FLAG 20)… After she calms down… she then proceeds to ask me "When are you coming to get your stuff out of the garage". Another heated argument ensues after I remind her she made the deal to keep my stuff in the garage (she just bought a convertible with a broken top, and needs to store it in the garage and refuses to throw her garbage away) and when I threaten to evict her for breach of verbal contract, I get a call, from her "THEN" live-in boyfriend. He then proceeds to cuss me out and threaten my life for 20 minutes straight, while she is listening on another line.
From here on out, for next 2 years, there are very few to NO positives about this story.
Accusations, lies, deception… all came out of her mouth and the situation. She has accused me of so many, immoral crazy things… due to her mental unstableness… The boyfriend (now ex) cussed me and threatened my life and lives of my entire family several times. And when I say cuss… I mean a steady stream of expletives, for 30-40 minutes to even hours at a time…
In April, she refused to let my wife inspect the house (just like she did in December, initially, when we were back there) that we began the eviction process. Once she received the first notice, she began visiting the health department and calling the Code enforcement EVERY day. She purposely neglected the upkeep of the property, destroyed walls, created water damage, destroyed the fridge… carpet was black with filth and dirt…bathrooms looked like public park bathrooms… Screens were tore out of every window. Broken windows… Appliances (Freezer, Washer, and Dryer) were missing. Dishwasher was broken, never used.. But had same stuff in it from 3 years ago, Front door kicked in and broken… holes in mant of the interior doors, just about… garbage and trash, and rotten food outside of the house. The Garage door look like someone had ran a car into from the inside… Basically $10,000 worth of damage to the house from, as the Code Enforcement inspector stated "Hard living".
And get this… she intentionally HARASSED the code enforcement and health department officials until they CONDEMNED my house so that she could get a few housing voucher for 1 month somewhere. She started this BEFORE she received the eviction notice (which means it was planned).. My wife dropped the eviction notice off, and the next day, I received calls from the health department and the code enforcement… for mold…from a leaking fridge. The fridge had been leaking off and on for over a year. We had sent the warranty company back and forth to the house. Somehow, the hinges on a fridge was 12 years old, had gotten warped in the last year. I asked her, eventually to turn off the water to the fridge and let the repair men repair the fridge. She would not do that (un plug the lines and turn off the water). The leak was coming from the ice maker. She also broke the toilet. And then had someone repair it, and the toilet flooded the downstairs… which led to mold where the was no mold before. But STILL, the bold was not enough to make her or her sick. What made the sick was that she NEVER changed the air filters… so that when we reviewed the house, the day after she moved out, there was black dirt caked onto EVERY VENT… and Ceiling fan of the house. This is what contributed to the poor air quality and sickness… the mold was small specs along the baseboards..
Mind you… I had to file a forcible eviction ($300 for the airplane ticket, $225 for the legal fees)… and she showed up to the court in a white Mercedes Benz.
I cannot stress enough that she
1) Had a serious mean and vengeful streak. The neighbors, between October of 2014 to 2015 called the Animal Control 35 times which led to my receiving fines from the HOA. She had so many clashes with the neighbors to the right and left, and even the ones who were over a football field away, behind her in regards to the dogs getting loose or her parking her School bus (she had a short school bus) and her Passenger bus, that she threatened to go after one of the neighbors by calling her supervisor…to "try to get her fired".
2) Accused me of trying to hook up with her, while I was all the was in Arizona, and my wife was there… This was one of MANY delusional statements she would make.
3) New her way around court as evident by her more than 30 court room cases that I found on record for her, the day before I had my own court date with her. Many times, as we were talking she would either accuse me of slander (I don't think I ever called her a name or cursed, her) or threaten to "Get the news cameras on me for being a slum Lord"
4) She knew how to abuse the system for everything (she was drawing checks for special needs relatives that she was keeping, as well as section 8, as well as other items). I was told her now "ex-boyfriend" that she thought of me as a coward who would not do anything (those are the nice words) and that she was literally drawing $7000 a month in money from different assistance sources...
5) At this point, I don't want to have a conversation on the phone with her because I realize how much of an EXTREME opportunist she is... She is the type of person who would have a fender bender and show up in the court on crutches, with a neck brace, and a wheel chair, and arm sling...
6) When I flew in for the court date, I phoned her to let her know I would be by to inspect the property. She refused, stating that she had an appointment the next day. We argued via text and then she called me... (I found out, her appointment was with health department and code enforcement, even though I had told hem prior, YES she played the 60 day eviction until forcible retainer card, the she was being evicted). Finally she called me and told me "If you come over, I am not responsible for what COULD happen to you" and that she would serve me litigation papers for MOLD.
At the end of the day, I filed a police report (back in June) for the stolen appliances (Washer, Dryer, deep freezer, bike), and contacted my insurance company for the damages to my house (burnt and broken counter tops in kitchen and other items... etc).. I was so angry, I thouugh Today I received a letter from them informing me that they would be pursuing her for the money they paid me to fix my home. I feel like GOD is real... because, I prayed, last night and this morning, asking him if I should PURSUE her for damages via small claims court... but God told me "Son, I got your back, let me fight your battle".
Sorry for the long story... Moral of the story is that, YES... subrogation is real.. and is necessary.
First of all thank you to everyone for their input, any little bit helps...
Here is some more info...
1) Yes, we put down a $2500 deposit which was not returned upon us moving out. I figured it was for a door that had a broken lock and a burn from the fireplace that was on the wood floor in the bathroom.
2) About one month after moving out (but after the LM estimates accordin to the dates) Landlord sent me a letter:
"I am writing to inform you that the damages done to XXX XXXXX, San Francisco, CA exceeds the $2500 security deposit that you gave me prior to your moving in. I am in the process of gathering estimates that show the damages exceed $7500. As of today I have already spent $776 of my own money on paint and cleaning supplies to restore the property to the condition in which you moved in. If you have quiestions regarding this letter please fell free to contact me, and when I have compeleted all the estimates I will send you a total to either this address.."
But she never sent me another letter. I find it strange that she didn't mention her already going through her insurance co in this letter since the date on the estimates LM sent me were 3 weeks before the date on my LLd's letter.
3) Liberty Mutual never sent me a letter asking for reimbursement, the first time I was told about the situation was from Wilber Lane Law Firm (representing L.M)
4) The law firm recently told me, as I have been keeping in constant contact with them, that I should send them the photos I took of the house when I left (I took hundreds, thank Goodness!), show how those photos might contradict the estimate, and then come up with my own total of what I believe I owe. Then they would see if that was a reasonable settlement and decide whether to accept or not. 5) When I asked for the pics that went along with the estimate they said they wouldn't send them to me. Said they wern't required to... They did send me the estimate, though. 6) I noticed that someone mentioned that they had to show their insurance co the invoices of the repairs when they had a tenant accidently ruin a part of their house. I find that interesting because when I asked for proof of work done to my old place, Wilber Lane Law Firm said that she was not required to actually have the place repaired. The woman on the phone at Wilber Lane Law compared it to a car accident claim where the owner of a wrecked car isn't required to get the car repaired just because they get issued a check. So I have to pay for work that might not be completed?
7) Many of the damages mentioned in the estimate were mold and structure related (ie: replaced plumbing in the bathroom, tested water heather for mold in lower bathroom) and were repair of items located in the basement bathroom, which I know for a fact, was built without permits (illegal bathroom). Why would an insurance co insure plumbing to an illegal bathroom? Is it possible they didn't know it was illegal, and if they didn't know am I still resposible to pay for claimed damages to it?
8) We have not gone to court yet and I really want to avoid it because if we loose we could end up paying for lawyer fees, etc., and my LL is a cop so even if she is lying (which she is) chances are the judge is going to believe her anyway. My pics are good but I couldn't take pics that would dispute mold testing. I would be taking a pretty big chance going to court.
I know I need to see a lawyer, but like I said my funds are very, very limited because I recently got laid off and had to cover some of my mother's medical bills. So, again, thank you for your help and every litte bit is appreciated.
Courts have this feature called 'discovery' where you should be able to get the photos LM claims to have but won't disclose voluntarily.
Some slumlords will try to scam you for 'damages' billed to a previous tenant on an insurance claim previously paid by a former insurance company. By NOT having repairs completed, the next tenant is set up for a similar 'damage' claim.
If you are currently laid off and you can temporarily qualify for food stamps (until you're working again) you might be able to get free legal help through Legal Aid.
The new post is worthy of it's own thread, but only so we can pick it apart for all the many ways the poster could have mitigated his damages, or even stopped that train wreck in its tracks before it began. Definition of fiasco.
All the while they said it was an accident and the company said it was negligence...
Sorry, I just had to laugh at that one. "I accidentally forgot that I had 450 degrees of boiling oil in my kitchen until it caught fire and burned down the kitchen. I didn't know that hot oil could cause a fire if it comes into contact with a flame."
Um... Yeah...
I'm glad it didn't hurt you too bad. That sucks for the LL even if it all gets made right. As for the tenant, I recommend either a brain transplant or if not available, a complete removal of the cerebrum. ... On second thought, probably too late! ROFL!
Total case of negligence, multiplied by stupidity.
Did you have renter's insurance? It often includes some liability coverage that could assist you in paying for damages if you were at fault.
Landlords usually buy what is called a "landlord protector" policy. It covers the house etc. but not the tenant's possessions. Tenants are recommended to buy "renters insurance."
Note that except in the case where LL has 100% ownership of the property, insurance is required by the lender, enough to cover the value of the house.
Tenant's possessions are their problem except in the case of a negligent landlord.
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