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California by statute sets limits on application fees and security deposits.
Thanks for not actually answering the Q.
I hope one of the CA people will make use of the pdf file.
and I'll hope the answer is actually in there but I'm not ferreting through 114 pages to find it.
ftr... in Maryland where I used to operate app fees are "up to $25".
The assumption being that the time involved is the LL's job and not something they get to charge extra for.
This is just so bizarre and so backward.
I am amazed that people consider this approach to operating a business to be any sort of "normal".
To be clear... if the previous tenant wasn't charged for damages or the LL doesn't have the
cash set aside for the ordinary wear and tear updating after their move out....
how does this expense get justified as the responsibility of a future tenant?
If the deal were somehow set up for the tenant to not be held responsible for ANY
cleaning when they move out then maybe so. But that doesn't appear to be the case.
It's a scam to make the rent appear to be lower or hide deposits under another name,
and put a lump of cash in the hand of the PMC.
---
btw.. How much do AZ and CA lawyers charge to process applications?
I can see where you're coming from, but "clean" when a tenant moves out, isn't the same "clean" they expect when moving in - the standard many judges hold a tenant to is "broom clean", which is a far cry from "move-in-ready".
Charging the fee just allows the landlord to "break-even" on the cleanliness scale - I gave you a *spotless* apartment, I get a *spotless* apartment back
(by charging a fee instead of a deposit, I can hire my own crew to do the job right, and not dicker with a tenant (or a judge) over what "clean" means).
Cleaning fridges, stoves, microwaves & bathrooms to a standard that most people would expect on move-in is a time consuming process, even if they weren't "trashed".
I hope one of the CA people will make use of the pdf file.
and I'll hope the answer is actually in there but I'm not ferreting through 114 pages to find it.
ftr... in Maryland where I used to operate app fees are "up to $25".
The assumption being that the time involved is the LL's job and not something they get to charge extra for.
It was not hard at all to find...
APPLICATION SCREENING FEE
When you submit a rental application, the landlord may charge you an application screening fee. In 2009, the landlord may charge up to $42.06, and may use the fee to cover the cost of obtaining information about you, such as checking your personal references and obtaining a credit report on you.32
The application fee cannot legally be more than the landlord's actual out-of-pocket costs, and, in 2009, can never be more than $42.06. The landlord must give you a receipt that itemizes his or her out-of-pocket expenses in obtaining and processing the information about you. The landlord must return any unused portion of the fee (for example, if the landlord does not check your references).
BASIC RULES GOVERNING SECURITY DEPOSITS
At the beginning of the tenancy, the landlord most likely will require you to pay a security deposit. The landlord can use the security deposit, for example, if you move out owing rent, damage the rental unit beyond normal wear and tear, or leave the rental less clean than when you moved in.87
Under California law, a lease or rental agreement cannot say that a security deposit is "nonrefundable."88 This means that when the tenancy ends, the landlord must return to you any payment that is a security deposit, unless the landlord properly uses the deposit for a lawful purpose, as described below and under Refunds of Security Deposits.
Almost all landlords charge tenants a security deposit. The security deposit may be called last month's rent, security deposit, pet deposit, key fee, or cleaning fee. The security deposit may be a combination, for example, of the last month's rent plus a specific amount for security. No matter what these payments or fees are called, the law considers them all, as well as any other deposit or charge, to be part of the security deposit.89 The one exception to this rule is stated in the next paragraph.
The law allows the landlord to require a tenant to pay an application screening fee, in addition to the security deposit.90 The application screening fee is not part of the security deposit. However, any other fee charged by the landlord at the beginning of the tenancy to cover the landlord's cost of processing a new tenant is part of the security deposit.91 Here are examples of the two kinds of fees:
Application screening fee - A landlord might charge you an application screening fee to cover the cost of obtaining information about you, such as checking your personal references and obtaining your credit report (see Application Screening Fee). The application screening fee is not part of the security deposit. Therefore, it is not refundable as part of the security deposit.
New tenant processing fee - A landlord might charge you a fee to reimburse the landlord for the costs of processing you as a new tenant. For example, at the beginning of the tenancy, the landlord might charge you for providing application forms, listing the unit for rent, interviewing and screening you, and similar purposes. These kinds of fees are part of the security deposit.92 Therefore, these fees are refundable as part of the security deposit, unless the landlord properly uses the deposit for a lawful purpose, as described below and under Refunds of Security Deposits.
The law limits the total amount that the landlord can require you to pay as a security deposit. The total amount allowed as security depends on whether the rental unit is unfurnished or furnished and whether you have a waterbed.
Unfurnished rental unit: The total amount that the landlord requires as security cannot be more than the amount of two months' rent. If you have a waterbed, the total amount allowed as security can be up to two and-a-half times the monthly rent.
Furnished rental unit: The total amount that the landlord requires as security cannot be more than the amount of three months' rent. If you have a waterbed, the total amount allowed as security can be up to three-and-a-half times the monthly rent.
Plus first month's rent: The landlord can require you to pay the first month's rent in addition to the security deposit
Thank you for the info guys, but the apartments I'm looking at are in Nevada. Las Vegas to be exact.
I agree with the person that said this is just a way to make the rent look cheaper. The casinos do the same thing - they offer cheap rooms and charge a "resort fee". When I asked the leasing office agents what the cleaning fee/admin fee (which happen to be about the same price), none could give me a straight answer. "It's to cover the costs of moving you in, the paper work".
Unfortunately, I'm just now discovering that all the places I'm looking to rent are charging a "fee" around that amount. They just all call it something different. Oh well...
You're *going* to pay all of a landlord's costs, plus a profit, no matter how you break it down.
Well, SOMEONE should be.
Pushing past operating expenses forward onto a new party is NOT the way to do it.
If the previous tenant was long term then nearly everything needed to make the place ready
again is related to the "ordinary wear and tear" that the rent paid by that previous tenant
all that time and the depreciation expense that the LL has been enjoying all that time.
If the previous tenant was short term... 1) why aren't you keeping tenants longer
and 2) why aren't you managing that turnover better and getting the moveout to pay?
I have every confidence that you are in fact getting the shorter term move out to pay...
or to have held on their security deposit to pay.
These practices are worse than what car dealers do.
Last edited by MrRational; 07-25-2012 at 04:59 AM..
Well, SOMEONE should be.
Pushing past operating expenses forward onto a new party is NOT the way to do it.
If the previous tenant was long term then nearly everything needed to make the place ready
again is related to the "ordinary wear and tear" that the rent paid by that previous tenant
all that time and the depreciation expense that the LL has been enjoying all that time.
If the previous tenant was short term... 1) why aren't you keeping tenants longer
and 2) why aren't you managing that turnover better and getting the moveout to pay?
I have every confidence that you are in fact getting the shorter term move out to pay...
or to have held on their security deposit to pay.
These practices are worse than what car dealers do.
But they're not "past operating expenses".
Tenants expect & get a perfectly spotless apartment when they move in.
Tenants never leave that apartment as nice as a new tenant would expect when they leave- so the landlord is going to have it cleaned professionally, and the tenant is going to pay for that, whether that be through higher monthly rent, or a "fee".
You're paying for what you used as a tenant, not someone else.
It was spotless when you got it, and it'll be restored to spotless when you leave - using the fee that you paid at the beginning of the lease.
Thank you for the info guys, but the apartments I'm looking at are in Nevada. Las Vegas to be exact.
I agree with the person that said this is just a way to make the rent look cheaper. The casinos do the same thing - they offer cheap rooms and charge a "resort fee". When I asked the leasing office agents what the cleaning fee/admin fee (which happen to be about the same price), none could give me a straight answer. "It's to cover the costs of moving you in, the paper work".
Unfortunately, I'm just now discovering that all the places I'm looking to rent are charging a "fee" around that amount. They just all call it something different. Oh well...
Sorry Vino... assumed it was in California from your location info...
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