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Well I survived the court experience today. Arrived at 9 with many other people, listened to the court clerk tell us rules for half an hour, then listened to the judge give us anecdotes and advice for another 45 minutes. Apparently this court can mandate mediation (they flat-out said no trial before mediation). Which was fine with me; while I did file for double the deposit, in truth, all I ever really wanted was the $250 for the stove they'd agreed to before I moved out.
So the step-daughter insisted on coming into the mediation, stating that she owns the property. Frankly I think it's up for debate since I looked at the will and it said the woman I sued was the owner. But whatever. The mediator was good; the step-daughter was a b-with something that rhymes with itch at the end. We first talked about the late return of the security deposit. S-D claimed that there were "damages" that were still under consideration and the LL stated that it was a rough time for her because she'd lost her partner (sorry, but that was 7 months prior) and because of "the holidays." Yeah, right. S-D claims damages she was "nice" and didn't charge for were a) the kitchen tiles (lol) at a cost of $160 (I ought to post a picture of the kitchen floor) b) mold in the basement for $400 (utter nonsense, and I have the email contact to prove I'd warned the landlord about the foundation issues) and c) $100 for the cleaning lady they hired while I was still living there! Even the mediator got fed up at C and told her there was no way that would have been acceptable, since they did it because they wanted to show the house. It's not as if I was a pig, they just wanted that "staged" look in the house.
On to the stove, the S-D claimed that they never agreed on a price. That was her whole argument. LL put on the waterworks because she's apparently losing her house in addition to the one she's trying to sell (the one I rented).
At this point, the mediator asked to speak to each of us individually. We talked for a bit about the issue, he basically said (though of course it wasn't really legal advice) that I had a good case, but asked what it would take for me to walk out of mediation without going to trial. I told him that really, all I ever wanted was the total amount for the stove we'd agreed to, and that if she gave me $150 (the remainder of the amount owed on the stove) and court costs, I would walk away from the whole thing. I know I could have won the additional $2300, but really, I don't need the money. All I wanted was an opportunity to speak with the LL (through a judge or mediator) and get what I actually was owed.
LL & S-D went in, and mediator came out and said they agreed. I wish I'd had the opportunity to talk to the LL separately; frankly, I think she was being bullied and given bad advice by the S-D. I wish I could have said something like, "I hope this proves to you that I was never trying to be unreasonable, that all I ever wanted was what was agreed to." I didn't though - best to just let it go and say good riddance to her, the S-D, renting (hopefully the place I"m renting now is the last one), and (hallelujah), New Jersey.
Thanks to all for the advice, it was an interesting experience. Moral of the story: forget niceness when it comes to agreements with tenants and landlords. Get it all in writing up front. I'm doing that now with my current landlord (who's a first-time LL), and I explained to him that it's nothing personal, it's just the best policy!
Good for you. It's a good life experience that you just went through.
Glad things went your way. Fair is fair. You were very nice by not going for the big bucks. Karma will reward you at some point.
I suggested to my mother that I expected to be nominated for sainthood by the end of the week!
But seriously, I should have just freaking known better when I moved in. I mean, it's not like I'm fresh out of school and that was my first rental. Oh well, I guess you're never too old to learn!
I wish I'd had the opportunity to talk to the LL separately; frankly, I think she was being bullied and given bad advice by the S-D. I wish I could have said something like, "I hope this proves to you that I was never trying to be unreasonable, that all I ever wanted was what was agreed to." I didn't though - best to just let it go and say good riddance to her ...
This isn't an uncommon feeling at all and I was in exactly that same position a couple of years ago when the executor of my long-departed LL took me to court. She had absolutely no case for what she was alleging, her facts were all wrong, and all she ever had to do was talk to me and we could have easily resolved the situation. I wrote to her attorney - twice - with all the details and documents which disproved the action in its entirety but never received one word in return. When the court date finally came around it took five minutes of mediation and I got exactly the simple compromise I'd suggested in the first place and Miss Executor got nothing but a (probably very fat) bill from her attorney.
As we exited the courtroom I wanted nothing more than to go over to her and tell her what an utter waste of time she'd caused for everyone and that her Daddy would be turning over in his grave over it all. But she'd brought some of the other family members with her, I'd always had an excellent relationship with them (they looked terribly embarrassed to even be there) so I let it go.
So glad it worked out for you and that you got what you really wanted - which of course was more to do with the principle of the matter than anything else!
This isn't an uncommon feeling at all and I was in exactly that same position a couple of years ago when the executor of my long-departed LL took me to court. She had absolutely no case for what she was alleging, her facts were all wrong, and all she ever had to do was talk to me and we could have easily resolved the situation.
So glad it worked out for you and that you got what you really wanted - which of course was more to do with the principle of the matter than anything else!
I forgot to mention the part where I said that I tried to remedy the situation before I filed. The mediator asked if I received any response, and I said no. The S-D claimed they didn't respond because everything was "on my timeline" (meaning before December 30). Of course it was - the blasted lease said the deposit had to be returned in 10 days! It's like you said, if they'd bothered to talk to me, it all could have been resolved. Instead, I believe they had to waste extra money spending the night up in the NJ town where the hearing was. I drove because it was only an hour or so away from me, but it was much farther for her to get there.
And some people on another board (and the lawyer I talked to) said that "the principle of the matter" isn't worth going to court for. After my experience, and the way I felt when all was said and done, I beg to differ. It was totally worth it.
And some people on another board (and the lawyer I talked to) said that "the principle of the matter" isn't worth going to court for. After my experience, and the way I felt when all was said and done, I beg to differ. It was totally worth it.
I couldn't agree more. I was involved in another landlord tenant dispute many years ago where principle was my driving force. One attorney down (I couldn't afford the bills!) and almost three years later I spent a whole day in court pro se against three top notch attorneys representing the defendant - and prevailed. Many before me had gone after this LL and given up because of his "dream team" and their tactics but against all odds and all advice I stuck it out to the bitter end. It got very nasty, it was exhausting but I was the talk of the local legal community for a long time thereafter in attaining the dubious medal for being the only person who ever beat the scumbag. The look on his face when the judge ruled in my favor was worth every painful minute.
I couldn't agree more. I was involved in another landlord tenant dispute many years ago where principle was my driving force. One attorney down (I couldn't afford the bills!) and almost three years later I spent a whole day in court pro se against three top notch attorneys representing the defendant - and prevailed. Many before me had gone after this LL and given up because of his "dream team" and their tactics but against all odds and all advice I stuck it out to the bitter end. It got very nasty, it was exhausting but I was the talk of the local legal community for a long time thereafter in attaining the dubious medal for being the only person who ever beat the scumbag. The look on his face when the judge ruled in my favor was worth every painful minute.
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And some people on another board (and the lawyer I talked to) said that "the principle of the matter" isn't worth going to court for.....
This is probably a good thing to remember, going forward. You see many folks spending thousands on lawyers over principle. Lots of civil cases and divorces drag on over this. One or both parties feel that the other party crossed the line and they are going to stick with the case to prove a point.
Your case, campion, isn't one of them. But you do hear about them.
Thank you for posting the follow-up I really appreciate it.
I suppose they have not yet tendered a check?
It really is a numbers game... so many people, for what ever reason, fail to follow through so those responsible are seldom held accountable.
I've never been anything but polite and forthright in court... the other side has been anywhere from the same to having the Judge threaten to have them physically removed... that is when anyone even shows up.
Thank you for posting the follow-up I really appreciate it.
I suppose they have not yet tendered a check?
It really is a numbers game... so many people, for what ever reason, fail to follow through so those responsible are seldom held accountable.
I've never been anything but polite and forthright in court... the other side has been anywhere from the same to having the Judge threaten to have them physically removed... that is when anyone even shows up.
Not yet. They have two weeks to send it to me. I expect they'll send it; I don't see them wanting to come back and have a judgment issued against them over $175.
It's tough to sit there and listen to people state utter bullcrap right in front of you. $160 to replace 30+ year old tiles I didn't even damage.
But I kept my cool and had all my documentation in triplicate with tabs to refer to specific conversations. The mediator at least was impressed.
Just because I think it's hilarious, here's a link to a before and after picture in the kitchen. The close-up is of the old stove with the teeny-tiny oven; the other stove picture is the new stove showing the floor with the missing tiles. You can see how much bigger the footprint was of the old stove by counting the wall tiles: the new stove is a normal-sized stove. And the floor: that's not dirt, it's age!
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