Upstairs Apartment leaks downstairs, whose responsible for damages? (apartments, lease, tenant)

[ajl08]

State: CA

I rent an upstairs unit in a 2-story apartment building. *EDIT* I do not have renter's insurance.

Short version:
My washing machine malfunctioned and overflowed. The landlord's said the insurances would handle it. Now, I received subrogation latter from the downstairs insurance/collection saying I must pay for the $10,000 repairs.

Long version:
On September 14, 2012 I was washing clothes. I put in a fairly small load of delicates. I was sorting more laundry in my bedroom to the right of the washer/dryer. I heard a large splashing sound of water and immediately checked the washer. It had begun to overflow. I turned it off and pulled some towels from the dryer (about 3) to soak up the spilled water. The water also spread into the hallway carpet in front of the washer/dryer. I began removing the water from the washer drum by hand with a bucket. The downstairs tenant (also a renter) came up and informed me that her ceiling was leaking. I told her what had just happened but that I had already turned off the unit and cleaned up the mess. I left a message for my landlord and explained the situation. He called back within the hour and said he would send a repairman to look at the washer in Monday.

On Monday, the repairman came and said that the timer/water level sensor was not working and fixed it.

Over the next two weeks, I saw Restoration Management Company visit the downstairs unit twice and dump out about half a garbage can of water (large, round kind). I'm assuming they vacuumed the water & dried the wall.

I was never contacted or followed up with about what has happened or of all was ok.

A month and a half later, October 31, the owner of the downstairs unit came and said he wanted to have some contractor inspect all our faucets to see if there was a deeper water leak. I had family over as it was Halloween and my grandson's birthday, so I told him I would inform my landlord and he gave me his contact info.

I left a message for my landlord. His son returned my call as his father was on vacation. I explained the situation to his son, who said he would contact the downstairs owner and let the insurance companies handle it.

For the next 2 1/2 months, (November-early January) I witnessed and heard the downstairs tenants have kitchen cabinets, bathroom toilets and sinks, hardwood flooring, and full sheets of drywall installed/repaired all by a single man (who seems to live in a neighboring building on the complex area).

Again, during all of this neither my landlord, or the downstairs tenant, or owner informed me of the situation/outcome.

On Saturday, February 9, 2013, after use my and flushing I noticed the toilet bowl never completely refilled with water. I flushed it again and plunged it and it seemed fine. Within 5 minutes I heard water trickling an checked the bathroom. A small amount of water had overflowed. I turned of the water to the toilet and was able to soak up the spilled water with a single towel. As I was leaving my home, about 30-40 minutes later, the downstairs tenant was outside and mentioned that water was dripping from the vent or fan in her bathroom. I told her I had a minor toilet overflow, but it had already been cleaned up and the water was off.
So, I called my landlord who was perturbed by the incident. At first he made it seem like a minor problem, but as I expressed my concern that maybe there was a deeper plumbing issue that causes water to easily leak, he suggested that I plunged the toilet wrong and that's why it overflowed. I was shocked that at the comment and remarked that it was the only way to fix the toilet. He said he just hopes the downstairs owner doesn't complain because he was already dealing with the $10,000 damages from the washer incident in September.

On March 1, I received a letter from Jonathan Neil & Associates. It lists the downstairs owner's name and insurance (Western United/AAA) as the client. It stated that it is naming me as the tortfeasor in a subrogation case and that I must pay the $10,000 damages/repairs.

I believe that my landlord insurance and the downstairs owner's insurance had already resolved this.

Is this legal/correct? Shouldn't their insurance be subrogating my landlord/landlord's insurance?

2 questions:
1. Is it possible that my landlord or his insurance is refusing to pay, and has told them to recover the money from me?

2. Is this just an error, and the letter is addressed to me, but intended for my landlord?

I want to ask my landlord if this is the case, but also want to be informed/prepared if the 1st option is the case.

[Senno]

1. Yes. They probably placed your owners insurance on notice, and it's possible they are refusing to pay.
2. Doubtful. Insurance companies will look to anyone they think they can collect from.

3. You need a lawyer, and I hope you have the original parts to the washer as it might be a design flaw or something and you could bring the manufacturer in.

4. I'm still trying to figure out how the relatively small amount of water you described caused 10k of damages. Doesn't really add up in my head. Is it all structure damage? Or contents as well?

[ajl08]

Originally Posted by Senno

1. Yes. They probably placed your owners insurance on notice, and it's possible they are refusing to pay.
2. Doubtful. Insurance companies will look to anyone they think they can collect from.

3. You need a lawyer, and I hope you have the original parts to the washer as it might be a design flaw or something and you could bring the manufacturer in.

4. I'm still trying to figure out how the relatively small amount of water you described caused 10k of damages. Doesn't really add up in my head. Is it all structure damage? Or contents as well?

3. Original parts? I do not. The washer/dryer machine belong to the owner and were here when I moved in 8 years ago. The washer has only ever been serviced once before all of this for a bad water pump.

4. Yes, I'm still puzzled by this too. I have never been informed or told what they replaced, I only know they did repairs/replacements because I saw when the worker was taking items out and installing new ones. I'm even more suspicious of the 10k amount, because the layouts of our apartments would have only damaged maybe (but the amount of water makes it unlikely) their ceiling and a part of the wall. Yet I saw them replace toilets, sinks, kitchen cabinets, and 2 large slabs of drywall.

[Ruth4Truth]

Have you asked your landlord about the letter? Show it to him and see what he says. It does look like you'll need a lawyer, though. If he's able to prove the landlord is at fault, then he could make the landlord liable for your legal fees. Maybe.

The only way there could have been that much damage (especially from the minor toilet mishap) is if there's some other type of inner plumbing leak.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by ajl08

I'm even more suspicious of the 10k amount, because the layouts of our apartments would have only damaged maybe (but the amount of water makes it unlikely) their ceiling and a part of the wall. Yet I saw them replace toilets, sinks, kitchen cabinets, and 2 large slabs of drywall.

Wow. Looks like someone took the opportunity to get a remodel, and wants to stick you with the bill. The company that did that work would have to testify as to the condition in which they found everything at the time.

[Senno]

Originally Posted by ajl08

3. Original parts? I do not. The washer/dryer machine belong to the owner and were here when I moved in 8 years ago. The washer has only ever been serviced once before all of this for a bad water pump.

4. Yes, I'm still puzzled by this too. I have never been informed or told what they replaced, I only know they did repairs/replacements because I saw when the worker was taking items out and installing new ones. I'm even more suspicious of the 10k amount, because the layouts of our apartments would have only damaged maybe (but the amount of water makes it unlikely) their ceiling and a part of the wall. Yet I saw them replace toilets, sinks, kitchen cabinets, and 2 large slabs of drywall.

Oh you said it was your washer.

You can call the adjuster/attorney who sent the subro letter and explain you are a tenant and the washer isn't yours and see what they say.

If they are stubborn you may have to hire a lawyer and prove the apartment owner is responsible.

Can't help ya more than that with the available info. I'm an insurance adjuster fyi.

The damage claim seems excessive from your limited discription of the leak.

[ajl08]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Have you asked your landlord about the letter? Show it to him and see what he says. It does look like you'll need a lawyer, though. If he's able to prove the landlord is at fault, then he could make the landlord liable for your legal fees. Maybe.

The only way there could have been that much damage (especially from the minor toilet mishap) is if there's some other type of inner plumbing leak.

I just received the letter yesterday. However, I thought the two insurance companies had already worked this out. (The downstair's insurance sent a letter in November before repairs, but it was addressed to my landlord so I forwarded it to him.)

The recent toilet incident never went anywhere. I told my landlord and that was it. However, this subrogation matter is only pertaining to the September washer incident.

[Senno]

Well, their "working it out" seems to have pointed the finger at you somehow, maybe. Or they haven't worked it out and are seeking to spread the wealth/risk, as it were...

[lrmsd]

Does your original lease say who is responsible for repairs? Usually, it will say the landlord is in charge of maintenance and repairs. Also, the lease will say what the apt is furnished with, including W/D. Sometimes, it will stipulate that the WD are being left 'as is' and will not be repaired or replaced when the break.
In either case, I fail to see how you would be legally liable for repairing someone else's building, unless they can show neglect on your part/hazarous behavior/vandalism, etc
Or, say you had a waterbed, and the lease said no waterbeds...
But, in this case: no way.
Something fishy is going on; and you need to talk to a legal advisor of some sort.
Perhaps a tenant law group or community legal services?
Really bizarre story, IMO.
Sounds like the landlord wanted/needed work done, or the tenant did??? and you are being railroaded.
If it all went down as you have stated in your post, you would not be liable.
Obviously, I am not a legal advisor. I recommend you find one....

[Ruth4Truth]

The landlord should be fighting that $10,000 claim. It's very fishy. It should have been easy enough for him to whittle it down to a normal amount, or nail the claimants for fraud. Maybe he doesn't want to go to the effort, and has implicated you, instead. You could call him, pretend you haven't rec'd that letter yet, and ask him if the matter has been settled or not, and see what he says. Listen to his reaction.

In the meantime, you might want to research rental lawyers or tenant advocacy groups who could recommend a lawyer.