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Old 05-23-2013, 03:10 PM
 
18 posts, read 18,765 times
Reputation: 26

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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrex62 View Post
I was told of an instance where the inspector insisted handicap grab bars and wheelchair ramps be retrofitted into a garage apartment under section 8 housing even though the tenant was not handicapped and did not use a wheel chair. This was because the main house had been rented prior to the landlord's purchase and subsequent move in as the primary resident. Due to the official classification of the property as a multiple tenant resident, it qualified for the commercial property treatment as if it were a hotel or public building in terms of accessibility.

That is an example of government regulation that many landlords do not wish to deal with.
help prove my point here. an anecdotal story that would apply to most no one property owner I've dealt with.

Something I am not getting with this story. An owner moves in and that makes the property 'commercial'? what am I missing? A hotel or public building is a not a redisdential apt building. What city/state would this be so I could look up zoning?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrex62 View Post
One of the frequent complaints I heard from landlords was that many section 8 applicants do not treat the properties they rent with respect or care and tend to cause more damage and leave more mess when vacating a property than do "full price" tenants. This is not true of all section 8 tenants, but the perception was the wrong type of tenant was much more likely that the good type.
I have been the most loved and respected tenant in any building I've ever lived in with the voucher and without. But then again I was raised to be a certain way. I also have street sense and common sense and made a good manager back in the day.

Section8 tenants pay the full price when subsidy is included. They have a bad rep and some of it is deserved, but that is where slum type people were out into slum like property (where were the inspection standards then?). Sec 8 tenants have new rules to go by since the late 90s(?). Security deposits pay for damage. When moving out I'd have to ask why are they moving? Being evicted? Why? Stories are usually full of myths mixed with some truth. Give real examples and things look different

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrex62 View Post
In my area, it was more common for run down properties to be enrolled in the HUD section 8 program than midprice or higher end properties. Our higher end properties were often still under the rental caps for the program so it was not a property qualification issue as much as it was a perception issue.
back to run down properties, which is property owners in over their heads who ruin neighborhoods.

btw, thanks, this thread has been much more civil, respectful and informative than others I've seen on the web on this subject

I would suggest people go to housing authority websites and actually look into what the standards and rules are. Things have changed in most areas. Sure there are some things wrong, but we do not get rid of the Police department when we find crooks there (baby with bathwater) do we?
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Old 05-23-2013, 03:17 PM
 
18 posts, read 18,765 times
Reputation: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
It has to do with many landlords just not wanting to deal with the inspections. Those codes they have to follow can get a little nit picky so even though a landlord is pretty much guaranteed their rent with section 8, they'd rather take their chances even though a section 8 tenant cannot have random people room with them as they can lose their plan. those inspections must be holy hell for a landlord to give up the rest of the peace of mind.
Nitpicking? Sure, a bureaucrat can do that. Hopefully there is a remedy, but what I hear you arguing for is more risk rather than security. Maybe I'm wrong, but most everyone I've dealt with who had issues with inspections just hated being told what to do even if it benefited their property. What does that say about things? What would that property owner do with a tenant that demanded they keep up their property? They are after all getting paid rent.

my opinion? Nitpick away, just send the check. others may get caught up in 'the government is telling me what to do' mindset but if that is the worst of their problems in life...
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:09 PM
 
Location: the illegal immigrant state
753 posts, read 860,042 times
Reputation: 972
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoaterinSoCal View Post
You are saying some landlords cannot bring their properties up to code.

As a former manager of property and now a voucher recipient I can say with authority that your list of items about the program are a worst case scenario.

I sign a lease for April1, I move on April 1. Unless of course the property was unable to meet code. What is so extra stringent about any code criteria listed on any sec 8 program site for any housing agency that is available for all the world to see?

The programs are understaffed and overworked? So they always say. Most housing agencies are slow with the voucher holders and not the landlords. Many have express areas for property holders.

Check payments are guaranteed.

What level of service are you speaking about exactly?

btw, I've never met a responsible and honest property owner who dealt with HUD Vouchers that ever had serious complaints outside of personality conflicts between inspectors and managers/owners of property. All government housing programs come with the equivalent of a rule book any educated person could understand. The HUD affiliated housing agencies usually bend over backwards, or should, to get good and decent property owners into their programs, unless of course those properties want to raise rents as high as possible and help destabilize a neighborhood by making it more transient by the nature of frequent movings in and out of tenants
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoaterinSoCal View Post
I have a section 8 certificate or voucher as they now call it. Most affordable places I've seen in SoCal, that meet market rate standards set by HUD and state Housing agencies, do not meet all the health and building codes required before a prospective tenant with a voucher would be allowed to move in. I've seen properties in my area I know I could not move into go through a year or two with cycles of tenants who posses no vouchers moving in and out, taking in stray roommates, midnight moves, evictions, and on and on.

What is it some people have against bringing their property up to code and then renting to responsible sec8 voucher tenants?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoaterinSoCal View Post
Government would be breathing down a landlord's neck? Government builds the roads we use. You see where we could go with this? But I am curious why you addressed or offered no salient or meaningful points. Do you think owning property is outside the purview of government? Buy a nice home and let an abutter put in a pig sty and who would you call to complain?

Specifically, can you lay out any particulars of any beef you'd have with any contract, any lease with a voucher holder and the government? What about the contract or lease would be different than a lease with a non government voucher?
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoaterinSoCal View Post
You provided generalizations, some of which I see as worst case scenarios not representative of the whole.

I do not want to argue that some landlords are wrong/stupid/illogical since it is only right/smart/logical to assume some are and some are not.

My experiences on different sides of the HUD program is an interesting one. I remember in tough times when landlords could not fill apts with rents they needed to pay off mortgages and upkeep of property they got in over their heads on, they flooded HUD programs while building up their properties to code. HUD payments kept many from losing all they ever worked for (or inherited).

I have many other stories and views on this, many very helpfully to anyone who truly needs stable and reliable tenants, but part of the deal for people would be learning how to screen people (social skills) and how to manage a property without letting these crazy management companies rip them off.

I sometimes think of starting a management company out here that does it all, but I find many property owners out here to be stupid and greedy. A deadly combination. See many sleeping in cars and storing their own belongings in autos or sheds.

Huge swaths of SoCal are nothing but a mix of Ghetto and Potemkin Village - in my opinion and observation
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoaterinSoCal View Post
and btw, I've reported people in the HUD programs for violations, mostly tenants. I wish more people would help to clean it up more,
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoaterinSoCal View Post
help prove my point here. an anecdotal story that would apply to most no one property owner I've dealt with.

Something I am not getting with this story. An owner moves in and that makes the property 'commercial'? what am I missing? A hotel or public building is a not a redisdential apt building. What city/state would this be so I could look up zoning?

I have been the most loved and respected tenant in any building I've ever lived in with the voucher and without. But then again I was raised to be a certain way. I also have street sense and common sense and made a good manager back in the day.

Section8 tenants pay the full price when subsidy is included. They have a bad rep and some of it is deserved, but that is where slum type people were out into slum like property (where were the inspection standards then?). Sec 8 tenants have new rules to go by since the late 90s(?). Security deposits pay for damage. When moving out I'd have to ask why are they moving? Being evicted? Why? Stories are usually full of myths mixed with some truth. Give real examples and things look different



back to run down properties, which is property owners in over their heads who ruin neighborhoods.

btw, thanks, this thread has been much more civil, respectful and informative than others I've seen on the web on this subject

I would suggest people go to housing authority websites and actually look into what the standards and rules are. Things have changed in most areas. Sure there are some things wrong, but we do not get rid of the Police department when we find crooks there (baby with bathwater) do we?
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoaterinSoCal View Post
Nitpicking? Sure, a bureaucrat can do that. Hopefully there is a remedy, but what I hear you arguing for is more risk rather than security. Maybe I'm wrong, but most everyone I've dealt with who had issues with inspections just hated being told what to do even if it benefited their property. What does that say about things? What would that property owner do with a tenant that demanded they keep up their property? They are after all getting paid rent.

my opinion? Nitpick away, just send the check. others may get caught up in 'the government is telling me what to do' mindset but if that is the worst of their problems in life...
I read most of your first post but none of the rest of quoted text because it was pointless to do so.

The take-home point is this- as with everything else in life, you get what you pay for. I you want to live in a more acceptable area, you'll have to pay more as does everyone else.
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:24 PM
 
Location: West Coast Wanderer
12,928 posts, read 11,125,099 times
Reputation: 6212
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoaterinSoCal View Post
Nitpicking? Sure, a bureaucrat can do that. Hopefully there is a remedy, but what I hear you arguing for is more risk rather than security. Maybe I'm wrong, but most everyone I've dealt with who had issues with inspections just hated being told what to do even if it benefited their property. What does that say about things? What would that property owner do with a tenant that demanded they keep up their property? They are after all getting paid rent.

my opinion? Nitpick away, just send the check. others may get caught up in 'the government is telling me what to do' mindset but if that is the worst of their problems in life...
You don't know any landlords do you?
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
2,489 posts, read 2,893,185 times
Reputation: 2047
Every time a section 8 inspector has nitpicked away at any of our properties, we have wound up spending several thousand dollars in so-called repairs. Tenant doesn't use a shower curtain and causes water damage to the floor. Landlord problem. Tenant paints all the windows shut. landlord problem. Tenant kicks bottom out of storm door. Landlord problem. All of these we are required to fix if they turn up in the inspection.

You don't know how infuriating the program can really be until you are the one writing checks out of your account to repair things the tenant broke and you have no real recourse. Sure, you can kick them out if you want to but you will likely never see any money for the damages. You can't get money from someone who has none.

We have one last Section 8 tenant left and when she is gone we will never participate in the program again unless we are legally forced to do so. Every one of the Section 8 tenants has been more of a headache than its worth.
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Back at home in western Washington!
1,354 posts, read 1,555,677 times
Reputation: 2677
First the disclaimer: I have not dealt with Sec. 8 and do not know anyone personally who has used Sec. 8. I do not know how it all works...but I do have some questions.

If I am a LL and have 2 interested renters...A is section 8 and B is self-pay. B has their deposit / first / last all ready to go and wants a one year lease. They move in immediately and I have 3 days between tenants without rental income. A...who pays the security and first / last with Sec. 8? Say the section 8 inspector comes in (after how long?) and gives me a list of improvements I have to make to bring my rental up to code (say, installing handrails in the bathtub - again, I don't know what types of codes are enforced with Section 8). I spend the money and time (keep in mind that that time is without rental income) to satisfy the code list and tenant A moves in. Aren't they generally responsible for paying a portion of the rent? What can I do as a LL if they aren't paying their portion? If I'm getting $900 from Section 8 and supposed to get $100 from the tenant...what if they don't pay their share? Do I start the eviction process and then begin the whole process of waiting to get another Section 8 tenant in? Who gave me security money?

From my small understanding of Section 8, it seems like a huge hassle to even begin dealing with Section 8. Self pay seems quicker and more simple for a LL to me.
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
2,489 posts, read 2,893,185 times
Reputation: 2047
Go with B!

If a Section 8 tenant does not pay their portion, you can evict them, but you must them decide whether you want to lose the $900/month or just eat the $100/month. And if you file for eviction you could possibly count on the tenant calling for an inspection and claiming a retaliatory eviction because they complained about something needing repair, etc. (Worst case scenario, but it happens)

In my experience, the self-pay tenant will usually take better care of the property and you won't be subjected to inspections and/or abatements.

As far as the security deposit, it has been so long since I have had to deal with the start of a S8 contract that I can't even remember if there was a deposit. I feel like there wasn't but I could be wrong.
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Clermont Fl
1,453 posts, read 2,013,431 times
Reputation: 929
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoaterinSoCal View Post
I have a section 8 certificate or voucher as they now call it. Most affordable places I've seen in SoCal, that meet market rate standards set by HUD and state Housing agencies, do not meet all the health and building codes required before a prospective tenant with a voucher would be allowed to move in. I've seen properties in my area I know I could not move into go through a year or two with cycles of tenants who posses no vouchers moving in and out, taking in stray roommates, midnight moves, evictions, and on and on.

What is it some people have against bringing their property up to code and then renting to responsible sec8 voucher tenants?

You lost me at “renting to a responsible sec8 voucher tenants” if you were responsible by definition you would be paying your own rent.
BUT
You could start paying your own rent instead of taking money from a state that’s more broke then you.
You could become a landlord and do it your way.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:15 AM
 
8,253 posts, read 6,792,891 times
Reputation: 11485
There are only 2 good reasons to not rent to Section 8: the quality of the tenants and the attitude of the Housing Authority.

Sorry, OP. I chose to not rent to your entitled argumentative self. That's my right. I am declining to do business with you.
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Old 05-24-2013, 01:48 PM
 
1,266 posts, read 1,171,010 times
Reputation: 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoaterinSoCal View Post
Government would be breathing down a landlord's neck? Government builds the roads we use. You see where we could go with this? But I am curious why you addressed or offered no salient or meaningful points. Do you think owning property is outside the purview of government? Buy a nice home and let an abutter put in a pig sty and who would you call to complain?

Specifically, can you lay out any particulars of any beef you'd have with any contract, any lease with a voucher holder and the government? What about the contract or lease would be different than a lease with a non government voucher?
She offered three "salient and meaningful points": (1) govt oversight/contract, (2) 1 yr leases, (3) rent cap.
Did you even read her post?!
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