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Then why wouldn't you be able to charge for painting if you can charge for carpet cleaning if, as you say, you are able to 'restore to original condition'? Makes no sense.
And some of the things you mentioned are damage, not normal wear and tear. Like 'diarrhea on carpet' or 'poo in the toilets'. Those all make sense to be able to charge for.
It would be interesting to know how fair the judges are in CA when interpreting their statutes regarding normal wear and tear.
That's not what it says, it says you can restore the unit to what it was on day one minus normal wear and tear. If they left some dirt and it needs vacuumed but instead you choose to have the carpet steam clean and charge them you are wrong. You really should get a second opinion because the cost to you if it is taken to court could be huge, withheld deposits times 3, in CA I think someone said its 3, plus their legal fees and your own if you loose, and I'm sure you will.
I said that but that was in WI where I reside. I have no idea if that is what CA does or would do.
That's not what it says, it says you can restore the unit to what it was on day one minus normal wear and tear. If they left some dirt and it needs vacuumed but instead you choose to have the carpet steam clean and charge them you are wrong. You really should get a second opinion because the cost to you if it is taken to court could be huge, withheld deposits times 3, in CA I think someone said its 3, plus their legal fees and your own if you loose, and I'm sure you will.
Okay, I did find the penalties so above is correct PLUS much more!: California Tenant Law - Non-profit legal advice for California renters' rights You can get your deposit back by suing in small claims court. If the landlord misses the 21 day deadline, he forfeits the right to deduct anything. If he keeps the money in bad faith, you can sue for up to 3 times the amount of the deposit. The process is quick, easy, and inexpensive. While you're at it, you can sue your landlord for other things, like breach of contract, nuisance, trespass, retaliation, fraud, unfair business practices, and more. The maximum in small claims court is now $10,000, and each person can sue separately for that amount.
Ultrarunner brought up the California clincher in this story. If you did not include in your initial move-out inspection that the tenant had to steam clean the carpets, then you can't charge for it.
In fact, if you didn't do the initial inspection properly, including a written notice with their rights, etc., if they take you to court, you will have to give them all of their deposit back, and pay their court costs, too.
I've helped my daughter do this twice. Of course, most tenants don't fight their security deposit deductions. But, if you want to be doing things by the book, you need to do that pre-move-out inspection properly. And you can only later charge them for things that were on that list that they didn't do, or for damage you couldn't see during the inspection or happened after the inspection.
Yes... the 21 day rule has been statute for a long time.
Return of Deposit and/or Accounting for monies withheld.
I've helped several friends get the full return of Deposit simply because the 21 days had come and gone... none were able to get treble damages because bad faith could not be proven.
Several times it was management changes or the tenant moved without a good forwarding address, etc.
I do think it is important to point out... landlords have returned all money due and later pursued tenants for latent damages and won judgments... it simply meant the Landlord had no security deposit remaining/held to deduct.
It's always interesting to see what landlords consider reasonable. My last rental was in a large apartment building with onsite management. They kept the public areas clean all the time, and were pretty responsive responding to repair requests.
When I moved out, I did what I considered the basics - threw out all of my trash, wipes off counters, vacuumed/swept the floors. I did not steam clean the carpets, and I didn't do any extra cleaning beyond whenever I had last cleaned the bathroom, etc. I got a check for 100% of my deposit along with a note thanking me for returning the unit in such good condition. I've always wondered what other units looked like at move out because I thought I had done the normal amount you had to do. In my other rental experiences, I always had roommates who stayed on after I left, so I was never turning a unit back over to a landlord.
Good point. I always pay someone to clean my apartment when I leave. I do this mainly so if I have to, I can show a receipt showing I paid to have the place cleaned. Also, moving is so exhausting, who has the energy to detail the apartment, too? I've always gotten my full deposits back, too. Sometimes I've had to fight for it, but usually, they are happy to get a professionally cleaned unit back. And I never damage anything.
Another CA landlord/tenant attorney has responded to my question.
His response.....
Quote:
The line is very clear. You have a duty to return the unit at the same original condition. That includes cleaning, and includes the carpet. Cleaning the apartment is part of the tenant's duties, the law is very clear about this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ Manager
That's not what it says, it says you can restore the unit to what it was on day one minus normal wear and tear. If they left some dirt and it needs vacuumed but instead you choose to have the carpet steam clean and charge them you are wrong. You really should get a second opinion because the cost to you if it is taken to court could be huge, withheld deposits times 3, in CA I think someone said its 3, plus their legal fees and your own if you loose, and I'm sure you will.
well of course if it's so light that a vacuum can take it out, I would not charge for it.
But often the stains are set in really good, requiring more than a vacuum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe
Ultrarunner brought up the California clincher in this story. If you did not include in your initial move-out inspection that the tenant had to steam clean the carpets, then you can't charge for it.
Here's the difference. If the ONLY thing that can restore the carpet to original cleanliness is a steam cleaning, then you CAN charge for steam cleaning.
The minimum standard is Whatever it takes, at reasonable cost, to restore it to the condition the tenant got it in.
So if there was a stain on the carpet that wasn't there on day one, and the carpet care guy charged $50, that $50 is coming out of the security.
I will listen to what landlord/tenant attorneys say, not consumer interpretation of the law.
Management companies that do not charge you for cleanliness restoration are either limited by law, or are being nice (and leaving money on the table).
Again, if you moved into steam cleaned carpets, the CONSCIONABLE thing to do is to return it with steam cleaned carpets.
You've lived there for a year or more, is it not reasonable to spend $50 to steam clean an apartment?
Last edited by oh come on!; 05-26-2015 at 05:51 PM..
If you got your rental with steam cleaned carpets, you should return your rental with steam cleaned carpets.
Not with a little bit of dirt on top.
Come on man, fair is fair. Don't call it normal wear and tear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oh come on!
well of course if it's so light that a vacuum can take it out, I would not charge for it.
But often the stains are set in really good, requiring more than a vacuum.
I'm confused. Your original post said there was a "little bit of dirt on top."
But, as long as your initial move-out inspection said they needed to steam clean the carpets, you should be legal.
Does your lawyer know about the initial move-out inspection law? Unfortunately, lawyers don't always look up all the laws. He may have missed that one. But, if you did one that included the steam cleaning, or at least gave them the option for one and they waived it in writing, no worries.
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