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By the way, as a landlord, I can not control what my tenants cook, anymore than I can make their children stop playing.
Fair housing laws say I have to rent to people with children and fair housing laws also say I can't refuse to rent to people of South East Asian heritage. So if the smell of curry bothers you, there is nothing your landlord can do about it.
Maybe your complaints would get some traction if you get the federal government to repeal fair housing laws. That way, I can refusee to rent to families with noisy children and can refuse to rent to Japanese who might cook fish, to Indians who might cook curry, or to Mexicans who cook with hot oil, chilies, and corn tortillas. If you are vegan I could refuse to rent to anyone who eats meat so their cooking won't bother you. Although, carnivores aren't really a protected class, so I suppose I could keep them out so you wouldn't have to smell meat cooking.
Wow, you took that comment to the extreme. No where did I say, or even imply, any of that. I do not have anything against fair housing laws, and I certainty do not want them repealed. I also did not say anything about getting the LL involved.
I'm so confused about how you could have come to such conclusions from my comment...
By the way, as a landlord, I can not control what my tenants cook, anymore than I can make their children stop playing.
Fair housing laws say I have to rent to people with children and fair housing laws also say I can't refuse to rent to people of South East Asian heritage. So if the smell of curry bothers you, there is nothing your landlord can do about it.
Maybe your complaints would get some traction if you get the federal government to repeal fair housing laws. That way, I can refusee to rent to families with noisy children and can refuse to rent to Japanese who might cook fish, to Indians who might cook curry, or to Mexicans who cook with hot oil, chilies, and corn tortillas. If you are vegan I could refuse to rent to anyone who eats meat so their cooking won't bother you. Although, carnivores aren't really a protected class, so I suppose I could keep them out so you wouldn't have to smell meat cooking.
I don't think that was the poster's point. However, the only pungent food odor you listed here that is difficult to remove I believe, is the Curry version. Of course, you cannot tell tenants what to cook or eat. People just want to vent.
Hah.. this is the crux of the problem, being about people. (If only one could actually speak to the neighbor without repercussions or actually have the neighbor respond with "Oh, I didn't realize I was being so noisy", suddenly becoming thoughtful from that point on).
I believe in later years this has worsened with many growing up thinking of themselves, expecting to do whatever they want. It is definitely a big issue, not only having seen addressed on C D, but all over. As I have said, it comes down to a personality and it would be great if THIS was recognized, altering current rules and laws, to address this particular point. I know it is tricky to determine, but since it causes such problems for other (quiet and respectful) tenants, there should be something added to cover "annoyances" in the gap between what is categorized as "nuisance" or "daily living".
What I am thinking is that there would be stricter controls, so that going in, prospective tenants are warned of not causing unnecessary, repetitive racket, beyond "normal living noise". Again, not that of which you could call police upon, such as loud music, late hours, fighting, battering, but when regularly assembling furniture on a wooden dining table, dropping tools, scraping chairs, hitting the wall repeatedly; bangs, thuds, hyperactive behavior, a pounding walk. (And resisting making adjustments to this). Why would a tenant below have to just suffer, while trying to live their life, also?
Though a prospective tenant may be told they will "need to be quiet", it is ignored once they are in, doing whatever they want. As I have mentioned, if a person likes to jump rope or use heavy exercise equipment, they should be cognizant enough to NOT select an upper unit! Attaching TVs to adjoined walls is also no good, since the sound will transfer, rather than using a stand. These are things Property Owners / managers should be covering beforehand, not allowing it to become a situation, later.
This particular issue will not change until it is really considered and I would be willing to get behind anything that would support this change.
Yes, the reason most people instinctively don't want to ask a neighbor to "turn it down" is that they know the neighbor probably understands the noise is bothersome, so they're dealing with a high level of callousness to begin with. Many people rant about how the Bible is absolute truth but few seem to respect Matthew 7:12, which would solve a lot of apartment problems.
People are basically good....at pretending to be good until they get what they want, after which far too many of them push the privilege and act like neighbors don't quite exist. The other problem is that apartments are inherently unpleasant places to live, engineered to cram people into cities and get maximum revenue from a plot of land.
Bit it's still just coughing. There is nothing that can be done, and I doubt having a chronic cough is any fun for your neighbor. If they could stop they would.
No one. I have never had a noise complaint made against me. I am a quiet person. I like a quiet home, but I understand the noises that come with apartment living. I will hear my neighbors closing doors, moving around their apartment, muffled talking, doing laundry, etc.
If I was a person who needed my living environment to be absolutely quiet, I would not live in an apartment building.
No, it's not. The definition of noise is a sound of any kind.
You can dwell on semantics, but in the context of bothersome noise in apartments, it sure is the unwanted kind! Nobody expects absolute silence, so why make a broad definition? Straight from Merriam Webster:
noise
noun \ˈnȯiz\
: a loud or unpleasant sound
: a sound that someone or something makes
: unwanted electronic signals that harm the quality of something (such as a radio or television broadcast or a digital photograph)
That last definition should also include modern electronic relaxation-deprivation, especially from bass.
It seems to me the OP is overly sensitive to noise, and no matter how quiet the neighbors are, there will always be problems.
You're reinterpreting what I wrote - speak for yourself. But kids playing outside can be a major source of irritation, and they also tend to trespass on people's yards. Parents need to respect neighbors and rein them in when it goes on too long. I haven't personally dealt with that so much as loud stereos and doors slamming.
Yup and I bet they expected you to conform to their schedule. These kinds of noise complaints are ridiculous and sadly that's what most of the complaints on this forum consist of. Very rarely do you hear complaints about parties or fighting or loud booming music.
I hope your landlord told him to get ear plugs
You "noise-deniers" make the common mistake of assuming it's all about volume. It's also about texture and patterns, which I keep trying to explain here and elsewhere. For example, a dripping water faucet may not even register on a decibel meter but can easily keep someone awake. People who can't help locking onto patterns are more affected than those with dull senses, and shouldn't be dismissed as troublemakers on a decibel technicality.
Many sufferers of wind turbine syndrome are called liars by that industry for the same reason (long-running pool filters cause similar complaints). The companies claim that wind turbines are no louder than a refrigerator, but the woosh/thump patterns and ominous infrasound components get ignored, and they are much different than refrigerator noise. Also, you get used to a refrigerator as a standard appliance and don't expect something outside to add to its noise. Most people don't have refrigerators in their sleeping rooms, anyhow. Details like that are ignored by noise-deniers because they know they aren't really telling the truth.
One thing that would really help when you consistently post on these threads where people are looking for solutions regarding noise that isway above and beyond'normal' daily living noise but yet not considered 'nuisance' noise by definition of the law, is to not post comments like the above. Posters are well aware that apartment buildings are not 100% quiet and no one has said anywhere that that it was they want or are asking for. Not even close. They are well aware what defines 'normal' daily living noise. This is far beyond that and there should be laws to protect these situations but because there are not, then that is where LLs should be stepping in and being more proactive to eliminate or lessen the problem whether it be speaking with the problem tenants, moving people to better suited apartments or working on or suggesting ways to soundproof the buildings/apartments much better. It would be a win-win for both the tenants and the LLs if the problems are addressed instead of LLs experiencing excessive turn-over and tenant's being unhappy and leaving.
If you have never experienced this type of noise and how traumatic and stressful this can become on a person's psyche over time then I doubt you will ever understand it. It is a REAL problem and there is a reason you continue to see people posting about it.
And telling people to move or purchase their own home are not easy solutions by any means and extremely difficult, if not impossible, for most people. And if they could have done any of that they surely would have by now instead of having to deal with this hell. They are not here complaining just to complain. These are real people with real concerns who are way beyond stressed out already. They want to discuss these issues with people who understand and can empathize with what they are going through and hopefully find solutions that others have had success with.
I have experienced this myself as a tenant and I totally understand what it is like. I also have experience on the property management end and when I show apartments I go through thoroughly with prospective tenants that we are looking for quiet people who respect their neighbors and assure them that they will get the same in return. We have had very few problems, if any at all, and the buildings I manage are now all hardwood floors and not insulated/sound proofed well at all. If we do have a problem we address it immediately and have never had it be an ongoing problem after addressing it.
Actually, the noise needn't be "way above and beyond" normal living noise. Just trying to sleep with some fool playing their TV at "low" volume half the night can be impossible. I've had that happen a lot in hotels, and usually waste no time calling their room directly, in an ominous tired trucker voice (works 80% of the time). But that's easier than dealing with people you're stuck around for months or years.
Some of us lock onto patterns at various volumes and can't ignore them. We shouldn't have to wear earplugs. All gadgets in a shared wall dwelling should be silenced, I think, after 9 PM, to allow for early risers. You should be able to sleep in near total silence except for noises that are mandatory for living. There are plenty of headphone options these days. This may be asking a lot from human nature but it's reasonable to ask.
You're reinterpreting what I wrote - speak for yourself. But kids playing outside can be a major source of irritation, and they also tend to trespass on people's yards. Parents need to respect neighbors and rein them in when it goes on too long. I haven't personally dealt with that so much as loud stereos and doors slamming.
YES! I just moved from a place that had a HUGE problem with children doing just that. Playing all over our porch, knocking on the door and running, impeding traffic, generally being a nuisance.
Children playing outside is one thing - these children were allowed to run amok with NO supervision. At some point the parents need to be held responsible and the children need to be playing in designated areas or inside.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_north
Some of us lock onto patterns at various volumes and can't ignore them. We shouldn't have to wear earplugs. All gadgets in a shared wall dwelling should be silenced, I think, after 9 PM, to allow for early risers. You should be able to sleep in near total silence except for noises that are mandatory for living. There are plenty of headphone options these days. This may be asking a lot from human nature but it's reasonable to ask.
Queue the people saying "well, we shouldn't have to wear headphones because you're too sensitive." Personally I agree with you. There is way too much noise pollution and to those who throw out the flippant "get a fan", "wear earplugs" or the best one - "get over it" - this is not something that we can help. Believe me, I WISH noises didn't bother me. Life would be much easier to live! Especially in a world with a bunch of inconsiderate a-holes.
We shouldn't have to wear earplugs. All gadgets in a shared wall dwelling should be silenced, I think, after 9 PM, to allow for early risers. You should be able to sleep in near total silence except for noises that are mandatory for living. There are plenty of headphone options these days. This may be asking a lot from human nature but it's reasonable to ask.
Sorry, but no it is not reasonable to expect that your neighbors to be on your schedule and to be completely silent after 9pm. What about people who work later? I've had jobs where I didn't even get home until close to midnight. You would just expect those people to not come home because you're an early riser? If you are going to live in close proximity to other people, you are going to have to understand that not everything is going to be exactly the way that you want it. People all have their own lives they are living, and on different schedules. It is just not reasonable to expect your neighbors to be on your schedule. Its never going to happen.
It doesn't make your neighbors ******** though. I'm sure for those who aren't early risers, they have to deal with the noises that you make in the morning. How would you like it if your neighbors insisted that there could be no movement, no noise in your apartment until after 10am?
Sorry, but no it is not reasonable to expect that your neighbors to be on your schedule and to be completely silent after 9pm. What about people who work later? I've had jobs where I didn't even get home until close to midnight. You would just expect those people to not come home because you're an early riser? If you are going to live in close proximity to other people, you are going to have to understand that not everything is going to be exactly the way that you want it. People all have their own lives they are living, and on different schedules. It is just not reasonable to expect your neighbors to be on your schedule. Its never going to happen.
It doesn't make your neighbors ******** though. I'm sure for those who aren't early risers, they have to deal with the noises that you make in the morning. How would you like it if your neighbors insisted that there could be no movement, no noise in your apartment until after 10am?
I just want to point out (again), how it comes down to personality. For instance, I have had mostly quiet neighbors, from those who I could tell were aware and respectful (as I am), to those who just don't give a damn. Some walk across the floor quietly and not make excessive noises, where another will stomp around hyperactively for hours, banging and slamming. (Current ones used to run a very LOUD "bullet" blender, between 6:30-7:00 am).
Though the ones upstairs are pretty thoughtless, I know they retire early, so I am aware to not run the disposal, etc., and rarely watch the small TV in the bedroom (not on wall), keeping the volume very low. There was one a-hole who would loudly play his bedroom TV (on wall) between 3:00 - 6:00 am - foreign speaking and singing. (Though I told the manager, this is one of these situations that went nowhere...him apparently "feigning innocence"). That is when I got in the habit of staying up, in the living room.
So..yes, the joys. (Of course, I would have loved my own, little unattached place). The thing is, people need to focus on the fact that they are not on their own. They would mostly have not have disturbed anyone, if just having lived downstairs. OH, to mention, briefly there was a 20-something girl nextdoor. The kitchen is against my LR entertainment unit wall. (Trust me, anyone living there has said they never heard anything from me). I would hear her repeatedly slam her kitchen cabinets during the wee hours, every day. I couldn't figure it out. I asked her about it and she coyly said she "likes to get a snack during the night", but you would have thought she was preparing the "last supper", between 2:00 - 7:00 am. Never heard anyone else doing that over the years. People can just be weird.
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These are things Property Owners / managers should be covering beforehand, not allowing it to become a situation, later. 
