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Really? I don't think I've ever cleaned an oven in my life. ....... it was a larger house, ........The cleaning portion of our bill from her tops $400..........I was only here to ask what regular wear and tear may be considered as. And yes, to that other smart ass, dust was on many a list of legit wear and tear.
Dirt is never wear and tear. Dust is not wear and tear. Dust means you didn't clean regularly.
Never cleaned an oven? Gross. You cook your family's food in that oven. Do you never wash your pots and pans, either?
$400 for a professional cleaner is what they charge for a large house, but only of the house is basically clean and just needs to be wiped down. If there is any real dirt, or if windows have to be cleaned, they charge more. A dirty oven adds $50 to the cleaning charge, if the cleaners will even do it and many of them won't.
It sounds like a lot of the bill was for damages, not for cleaning. The cleaning charge seems legitimate to me, because you did not leave the house sparkling clean as you believe. I keep telling tenants that leaving a dirty house is not going to cost them $25 as they all want to believe. Professional house cleaning is expensive. If you don;t want to pay for cleaning, you must deep clean when you move out.
I think maybe, you ought to just pay the bill and move on. Maybe get someone to show you how to clean an oven.
Okay, I have done extensive reading on the laws for Florida regarding tenants rights and what a security deposit can be used for.
I don't have money to consult a lawyer; I would just like some opinions. Our last landlord sent us a bill for $319, on top of our $900 security deposits ($600 + $300 non refundable pet deposit). She's claiming $1219 in damages. We have two kids and 3 dogs, so it's reasonable to assume we could have made a mess. We didn't. The house was sparkling upon our move out.
So, what I've read as to "reasonable wear & tear" has been very vague. Her specifics included these:
* dust on blinds in one of the bedrooms
THATS JUST CLEANING. NOT DAMAGE BUT I GUESS CHARGEABLE
* dust on fan blades on two of the fans
CLEANING STILL. SAME AS ABOVE
* orange/red inside of dishwasher (we learned this was a mix of hard water & pasta sauce), it comes out with bleach -- but we did not bleach it. It's not broken in any sense.
YOUR FAULT. SHOULD CLEAN IT IF IT WAS CLEAN BEFORE. CANT DO MUCH ABOUT THE HARD WATER AS THATS NOT YOUR FAULT, BUT THE PASTA SAUCE IS.
* cleaning of the garage - this contained the original homeowners possessions in about 75% of the area. We used the washer/dryer and stored some boxes and tools. She told us in our first walk through before renting that they left behind a lot. We didn't touch any of it.
MOVE YOUR STUFF AND SWEEP IT LEAVE THEIR STUFF. NOT REALLY A WEAR ISSUE
* a missing screw on a window latch - we were not aware of this but I guess it could be "repair"?
LL PROBLEM IMO ITS A REPAIR UNLESS YOU REMOVED THE SCREW. BUT HOLY CRAP ITS A 4 CENT SCREW
* cleaning of window panes - My daughter left window clings and I forgot to get the residue off the window panes before leaving. It doesn't effect the windows and they are not broken.
CLEANING FEE APPLIES. NOT REALLY DAMAGE UNLESS THE RESIDUE STAINED THE GKASS AND CANT BE REMOVED.
* cleaning of the oven (this is 100% legit, didn't even think of this)
CHARGEABLE CLEANING FEE
* the bathtub had some dirty aftermath left from dumping out mop water. I hadn't washed it down before she arrived for a walk through and specifically told her this and she said it's fine. Nothing was broken or stopped up.
CLEANING FEE APPLIES. YOU LEFT IT DIRTY
* a "dirty" toilet - I scrubbed the toilet for about 45 minutes, back to front, inside and out. The toilet is older and the water can be hard. Unless I am a professional with some industrial cleaner, the bowl isn't getting any more white than it was in her photos.
IF IT WAS IN THE SAME SHAPE AS BEFORE WHEN YOU TOOK POSESSION ITS JUST STAIN. I WOULDNT WORRY ABOUT IT BUT IN MY RENTALS I WOULD REPLACE IT
* she provided a photo of one of the vanity mirrors. I believe it had a few speckles of maybe toothpaste on it? I cleaned all of the vanities perfectly so I'm not quite sure. There were paint spots on the window prior to our move in. I can't tell from the photo if what she's claiming though.
I GUESS CHARGEABLE CLEANING FEE
I read through the lease a dozen times. I understand what a mess is and what it isn't. No holes in the wall, broken windows...Nothing. Anything that was actually damaged (screens & blinds).
What is wear and tear? What is legit damage? So much of what I read is so vague. I'm in FL if that helps.
Wear and tear is really hard to define. I tend to take it in pretty literal sense.
A broken something from constant use is wear and tear.
A accidents or intentional breaking/destruction of something is damage.
Someone walking on carpet every day and wearing it out ok that's wear and tear. Someone walking on carpet with greasy muddy boots that's damage. Both instances are walking but one is damaging it by adding grease and dirt to the wear and tear.
It sounds more like cleaning fee issues rather than damage issue.
Really? I don't think I've ever cleaned an oven in my life. I guess it wasn't ever taught to me as a kid as being a normal everyday thing. We had so much packing to do that cleaning the oven definitely didn't cross my mind. That's a fair charge for her, IMO.
What else would you care to know? She knew of all our pets as it was a larger house, no carpet and a massive backyard. The dogs did minimal damage (listed below) and she is aware of all of it.
When I asked for an actual list of "repairs", she sent a letter with photos of dusty blinds, a dusty fan and a streaky window. Also a picture of the garage that looks more or less how we left it (and how it was upon move in) and a window latch with a screw missing. She also added in the photo of the mop water I didn't get to wash down that she said was fine.
I can understand her wanting to hire someone to make it perfect but for a move out, it was freakin nice. I mean really, dust on the blinds?
The cleaning portion of our bill from her tops $400.
I didn't explain that in detail. She added in the pet deposit a second time making it $600 instead of $300. She didn't even address that. Our entire deposit amounts to $900 so the extra $300 she claims as a pet deposit baffles me.
If you want all the dirt and think I'm oh so deceptive....
She's charging us for a few dog toys left in the backyard. Replacing some already ripped up linoleum that we made way worse (legit charge). Our dogs screwed up the blinds and screens and a part of weather stripping, so that's in there too, and completely understandable.
I was only here to ask what regular wear and tear may be considered as. And yes, to that other smart ass, dust was on many a list of legit wear and tear.
i'd actually fight about "already ripped up linoleum that we made way worse" - if it was torn/peeling when you moved in, it had no value & you shouldn't get charged for it. Blinds & screens could be stupid expensive on a large house - re-screening a standard bedroom window is about $50 at the ace hardware near me..
In my area, most single-family landlords charge a non-refundable cleaning fee at the beginning of the lease to avoid all the drama about how much it costs to really clean a house - or what "clean" is.. if i can fit your trash in the dumpster & the cleaning crew can fluff it to my standards in 1/2 a day, we're golden.. with 3 dogs, even in a small house, that fee might be $600. (Or $300 pet fee +$300 cleaning fee, just so the tenant feels better about it).. the cleaning crew I use is 3-4 cleaners moving really fast & maybe they can be out in three hours, but I've never seen them do it in less time - even if the house looks pretty good. The one window/fan or blind they miss is the one the next tenant will be showing me a few days later, while they're tapping their foot & telling me about the cleaning fee I charged.. :-)
Dirt is never wear and tear. Dust is not wear and tear. Dust means you didn't clean regularly.
Never cleaned an oven? Gross. You cook your family's food in that oven. Do you never wash your pots and pans, either?
$400 for a professional cleaner is what they charge for a large house, but only of the house is basically clean and just needs to be wiped down. If there is any real dirt, or if windows have to be cleaned, they charge more. A dirty oven adds $50 to the cleaning charge, if the cleaners will even do it and many of them won't.
It sounds like a lot of the bill was for damages, not for cleaning. The cleaning charge seems legitimate to me, because you did not leave the house sparkling clean as you believe. I keep telling tenants that leaving a dirty house is not going to cost them $25 as they all want to believe. Professional house cleaning is expensive. If you don;t want to pay for cleaning, you must deep clean when you move out.
I think maybe, you ought to just pay the bill and move on. Maybe get someone to show you how to clean an oven.
What does not using the oven cleaning setting have to do with pots and pans? I dusted that house on a regular basis. The photos she shows are the lightest dust imaginable. What are you dusting if there is no dust?
I'm not arguing any of this, all i wanted to know is what is wear and tear and what isn't. Multiple sites I read included dust as normal wear and tear. I didn't come by to be insulted by some dick head making wild assumptions over an oven.
And I'll add we had quotes from 3 cleaning companies before we cleaned that told us $250 tops.
i'd actually fight about "already ripped up linoleum that we made way worse" - if it was torn/peeling when you moved in, it had no value & you shouldn't get charged for it. Blinds & screens could be stupid expensive on a large house - re-screening a standard bedroom window is about $50 at the ace hardware near me..
In my area, most single-family landlords charge a non-refundable cleaning fee at the beginning of the lease to avoid all the drama about how much it costs to really clean a house - or what "clean" is.. if i can fit your trash in the dumpster & the cleaning crew can fluff it to my standards in 1/2 a day, we're golden.. with 3 dogs, even in a small house, that fee might be $600. (Or $300 pet fee +$300 cleaning fee, just so the tenant feels better about it).. the cleaning crew I use is 3-4 cleaners moving really fast & maybe they can be out in three hours, but I've never seen them do it in less time - even if the house looks pretty good. The one window/fan or blind they miss is the one the next tenant will be showing me a few days later, while they're tapping their foot & telling me about the cleaning fee I charged.. :-)
She said the linoleum was our fault because we didn't tell her it was worse. Our lease states a $145 (i believe) cleaning fee will be charged upon move out.
She replaced one screen and had to put the rubber back down on two more. I've done that before, so I wouldn't argue much on the price plus blinds.
The things listed were the only things that I wasnt certain about.
First, did the LL happen to slip up on either of the following?
How many days has it been since you turned over the keys and surrendered the apt?
Florida in a nutshell - Upon the vacating of the premises for termination of the lease, if the landlord does not intend to impose a claim on the security deposit, the landlord shall have 15 days to return the security deposit together with interest if otherwise required, or the landlord shall have 30 days to give the tenant written notice by certified mail to the tenant’s last known mailing address of his or her intention to impose a claim on the deposit and the reason for imposing the claim. In most of 50 states if a landlord does not send an itemized statement and deposit balance to the tenant within 30 days of the date the rental agreement is terminated or the tenant moves out, whichever is later, the landlord forfeits all rights to any of the deposit and to take further legal action against the tenant in a court of a law. It really makes no difference how much damage there is if any. Even if there was $10,000 in damages, the landlord has lost his rights to suit you in court. Most Landlords don't even know this. More here: http://securitydepositrefund.org/florida-renters-rights-law.html
Did the LL notify you within 30 days after paying the security deposit where the security deposit was going to be held?
And don't forget. You only have 15 days from the date you received the itemized list of deductions to challenge it. (Also stated in the above link)
She sent us a poorly itemized letter a few days after we turned over the keys. It said things like yard work - $50, cleaning - $400, repairs - $120. I wrote back to get an actual itemized bill for what was repaired, what was cleaned and how much they charged, etc. We did that within 15 days. We got her response about a week later (yesterday).
She did not tell us anything else about the deposit. My husband's father is a lawyer and made us read all the tenant laws, of course.
Only the cleaning bit is where I'm a bit perplexed. Thanks for the info though. I had forgotten about the security deposit location part.
Dirt is not wear and tear, pick a different pony here because this ones a loser. Your issue is how much it cost to repair all the items listed, you owe for the mess but that seems excessive since I can have a full deep clean including carpets for about $600. Unless any of the damage was specifically pet related then that $300 non-refundable fee doesn't mean anything here. It doesn't need to be applied to any non-pet items.
How nicely stated. Any actual physical damage was done by our dogs, which she is aware of. She threw in the $300 pet deposit for use in this amount. That's the only reason I include it.
Location: Finally the house is done and we are in Port St. Lucie!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superkt
She said the linoleum was our fault because we didn't tell her it was worse. Our lease states a $145 (i believe) cleaning fee will be charged upon move out.
She replaced one screen and had to put the rubber back down on two more. I've done that before, so I wouldn't argue much on the price plus blinds.
The things listed were the only things that I wasn't certain about.
Apparently I'm a slovenly disgusting slob.
Try not to take things personally.... on Any forum. I know it's hard when you feel attacked.
I'm with you on this one. You wouldn't believe some of the things I personally cleaned up when moving into this place. Yours sounds like a major piece of cake. Ambiguous wording sucks.
<Delete> Never mind. I see that it was answered LOL
Just trying to get a feel for when we move, if we happen to have some of this fall back to us also.
Try not to take things personally.... on Any forum. I know it's hard when you feel attacked.
I'm with you on this one. You wouldn't believe some of the things I personally cleaned up when moving into this place. Yours sounds like a major piece of cake. Ambiguous wording sucks.
<Delete> Never mind. I see that it was answered LOL
Just trying to get a feel for when we move, if we happen to have some of this fall back to us also.
Ahh I'm just glad some of these d bags aren't my landlord
She said the linoleum was our fault because we didn't tell her it was worse. Our lease states a $145 (i believe) cleaning fee will be charged upon move out.
She replaced one screen and had to put the rubber back down on two more. I've done that before, so I wouldn't argue much on the price plus blinds.
The things listed were the only things that I wasnt certain about.
Apparently I'm a slovenly disgusting slob.
Well she would of known the linoleum was ripped from previous walk through. I just don't see how she didn't see the damage. It's really her responsibility to fix it. If it gets worse and she didn't fix it IMO it's on her. My cleaning lady charges about 150 for good deep cleaning but that's a good guy fee I've used her forever and I usually pad it a bit. She has charged 250 with other customers she told me about but she said that was because it was filthy
I dont much care about dust or stupid little stuff like a missing screw scuff marks. I usually have a crew go in and redo the rental for a new tenant. It costs me about 1k on average to bring it to standard I consider acceptable. Most would see it as overboard. But I expect tenants to call if there are issues. To me it's just part of doing business. I guess your list is all chargeable if the LL wants to be a stickler for cleanliness. But I guarantee you that your LL will e doing the same to the next tenant.
Maybe it's just me but I don't see dust as damage. It's just something that's there like air or daylight. I don't remember ever charging anyone for dusting. I dint expect people to clean like I do. When I was getting our new rental ready I actually cleaned the fan blade tops. But I don't expect my tenants to actually do that when they leave.
As long as the place isn't jacked up little stuff just gets fixed. I don't have time to screw around with $200 in charged fees or deal with going to court over $200 bucks.
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