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Old 10-10-2016, 07:45 AM
 
8 posts, read 38,045 times
Reputation: 10

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Hi!

I'm in a bit of a pickle and need some advice. I had a roommate, let's call her Abigail, for a year. The entire year, she was pretty immature, difficult and self-centered, but I learned the best way to deal with her and avoid conflict was to just give her her way because she's unreasonable if she doesn't get her way. Because I'm pretty mellow and let everything go, we lived peacefully for an entire year. But now she's reverted back to being a difficult nightmare upon move-out.

Example: I have a fully furnished apartment. It's furnished w/ pretty expensive furniture that I welcomed her to use. Our security deposit is only a few hundred dollars, so the roommate before Abigail paid it since she didn't have to buy furniture w/ the understanding that she'd get it back after move-out if there weren't any damages, and I'd keep the furniture. It was so simple and easy. When Abigail moved in, she flat out refused to give my former roommate her entire deposit back, only agreed to give me half of it directly (wouldn't give it to the former roommate), and then accused me a year later of being selfish for having a fully furnished apartment that she contributed exactly 0 dollars to because it meant she couldn't decorate how she likes.

Abigail moved out (which was another series of headaches and difficulties) and a new roommate moved in. Before the new roommate moved in, I walked into Abigail's room (for the first time in a year) to look it over, and the carpet is now imprinted with giant rings of dirt so that you can distinctly see where every piece of her furniture was. I'm talking it was almost black except for where her furniture was covering. And you can distinctly make out all of her traffic patterns, and there's a pink stain in one of the corners (I don't know what it is but that was her favorite color so it makes sense). I had scheduled the apartment for a move-out cleaning and carpet cleaning to prep for the new roommate, so I hoped the carpet cleaners would fix it.

The carpet cleaner comes and starts cleaning. He walked into her room and says "WOW, whoever lived here was filthy! How did they do this?" I have no idea! He said that it was crazy because the rest of the apartment is in such good condition save for Abigail's room. He told me he could try to bleach it for 100 extra dollars and asked if she was a reasonable person. I told him she is extremely difficult, and I just wanted to fix it without having to spend additional money because she will most likely cause drama over it. Long story short, he tried to fix her carpet, but couldn't. 3 more people came (including a supervisor), no one could fix it. They each said she destroyed it and it'd have to be replaced. And each cleaner made a point of saying how odd it was considering the rest of the apartment was taken care of so well minus Abigail's room.

Now, Abigail owes me rent that she refuses to pay because she thinks it should come out of her security deposit. I sent her pictures of the damaged carpet and told her that the deposit (which she didn't even pay the entire amount initially) is gonna have to go to repairing the carpets and that as of now, I have no idea how much the building will charge to replace it. She had been ignoring me for weeks (I even had a carpet cleaner call to explain to her what was wrong with her carpet), so I finally said that if she didn't respond to me I was just gonna handle it legally. 2-3 hours after that, she sent her parents over to my apartment (without asking me if that was okay) to talk to me and inspect the carpet. I wasn't home but my current roommate was and was weirded out. She didn't let them in and wanted to call security.

Afterwards, she refused to apologize about sending her parents over unannounced and started talking about how I owe HER money, and am being "dramatic, a liar, and hostile." I could not have been nicer about this carpet. I told her she could hire her own people to fix it, pay to replace it, I can hold her security deposit until I find out what the building decides to do about the carpet, etc, etc. I didn't resort to calling her names at any point and to be honest, I just want the carpet fixed...I don't care how she achieves that. I'm not even mad, accidents happen and that's what security deposits are for. I reiterated that I'm not upset about but she continued hurling insults. I'm at a loss at what to do at this point. She won't pay the rent. The security deposit is only a couple hundred dollars and I'm looking at paying 1000-1500 most likely to replace her damage which isn't fair. Any suggestions of what to do at this point? Thanks!
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Old 10-10-2016, 07:59 AM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,098 posts, read 16,015,663 times
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How old are you folks, in particular Abigail? You may end up needing to deal with the parents, not because she isn't legally responsibile, but because it sounds like she is one of those young adults who is from a family where Mom and Dad are still operating as helicopter parents. If this is true they may take financial responsibility for her actions, even if they aren't legally required to.
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Old 10-10-2016, 04:31 PM
 
10,746 posts, read 25,867,711 times
Reputation: 16022
Who's on the lease and does your landlord know about Abigail and the other roomies?

If you're on the lease, you're going to be responsible for all damages when you move out. If you and a roommate are on the lease, you both are responsible for the damages. What's left of the deposit will be refunded in ONE check, made out to both parties, and they get to fight over it.

Does your landlord know you're doing this of 'replay' and cleaning without his input or approval?

You do have yourself in a pickle....
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Old 10-10-2016, 06:48 PM
 
554 posts, read 427,525 times
Reputation: 1754
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim in FL View Post
Who's on the lease and does your landlord know about Abigail and the other roomies?

If you're on the lease, you're going to be responsible for all damages when you move out. If you and a roommate are on the lease, you both are responsible for the damages. What's left of the deposit will be refunded in ONE check, made out to both parties, and they get to fight over it.

Does your landlord know you're doing this of 'replay' and cleaning without his input or approval?

You do have yourself in a pickle....
Why is cleaning the carpet a problem? I would think LL would want tenants who stay multiple years to have the carpets cleaned every year.

Just asking . . . You make it sound like she's violating some policy by having professionals clean the carpet.
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Old 10-11-2016, 02:44 AM
 
8 posts, read 38,045 times
Reputation: 10
Quick clarification! Thanks for the replies.

I understand what you're saying about the landlord's knowledge. Not exactly sure why that'd be a violation in any circumstance, because as a result my apartment is really clean. However, I live in a huge corporate complex with multiple properties throughout the area. The management company is pretty notoriously bad/useless, so there's no official "landlord." The company used to give residents free carpet cleanings as a bonus for re-signing your lease. They did away with that but have recommendations for various cleaning services that they suggest we hire on our own for these purposes.

We are in our mid to late 20s, but she is very immature (when she doesn't get her way she defies logic and reason, and spins the story to her parents and enlists them to fight her battles). I'd say her parents are definitely helicopter (but more so in encouraging her entitlement than cleaning up her messes if that makes sense). From what my roommate (who intercepted them) said, they were angry and it sounded like they came to argue on her behalf moreso than to hear what's been going on (unsurprising, because she told them I'm lying, then told them to drive hours from their house to come to my apartment without asking me if that was okay or bothering to find out if I was even home...I wasn't). Needless to say, they left stressed and unhappy about making the trip. They mistook my roommate for me (even though I've met them before) so my roommate said it seemed like they thought I was running an elaborate con by saying I wasn't home and that they'd have to have their daughter call me directly or come back when I'm there. They really operate unlike any people I've ever met.

On the flip side, she keeps reiterating that her contract was between me, her and the building and no one else and that I owe her her entire security deposit and she has proof of having paid a deposit. I told her the fact that she paid a deposit isn't in dispute, it's that her deposit needs to be applied for damages after she left her room damaged. I pointed out that she can't say things like the contract is only between me and her and then enlist her parents to talk to me in her stead because they are not involved in the contract. Now, if they want to assume responsibility for her, I have no problem with that. I took before and after pictures and explained what the problem was, and have told her she can come over and look whenever I'm home (she ignored all of this).

The building's policy (this seems pretty typical of most companies) is that they allow you to rotate roommates on and off the lease, but that the security deposit stays with the apartment until all occupants officially vacate. Thus, for damages, reimbursement of security deposits, they expect us to work it out independently. She knows this because we went through this process when she moved in, she inspected her room, and put down a deposit which then went to the previous roommate. We're going through the exact same process we did last year, the only difference is that she caused damage and the roommate prior to her didn't.

At the time damage occurred, she was on the lease and there's a damage clause. They know who she is in the office, because some of the people expressed sympathy for me having to deal with her on other occasions. She's off the lease now. I know that the building won't get involved, and how the check will be cut upon move out which is why I've been working to resolve this with her on my own. To be honest, I don't think I'm likely to see any deposit money back after this, but I'd be more than happy to reimburse her as long as she fixes the damage.

I most recently told her that she can't continue to withhold the rent she owes from me. The roommate prior to her didn't withhold pro-rated rent from her on top of agreeing to accept a loss of hundreds of dollars of her security deposit because Abigail refused to fully reimburse her (not because of damages, Abigail was just being difficult). As for her security deposit, I offered her a plethora of alternatives. She can hire her own cleaners to come in and fix it, she can fix it herself by finding out how much the building will charge to replace and restore it, etc, etc. I told her I just want it to be restored to how it was when she moved in, if her goal is to get her full security deposit back.

Otherwise, I told her that it wouldn't be fair to make the new roommate put down a security deposit to reimburse her for a room she delivered to her damaged, and it wouldn't be fair for me to do either for the same reasons. The security deposit is in place to cover damages. Professionals estimated that the carpets are going to cost in the neighborhood of 1000 or more to replace. Her deposit is barely 30% of the cost of the damages. I told her that I'd be happy to split whatever money (if any) the building gives me when I move out in a few months, but until the damage in her room is resolved, her security deposit is remaining with the building to apply toward whatever the building decides to charge for her carpets. If it's less than her deposit, she can have the difference.

She accused me of lying, the carpet cleaners of lying, the photos being doctored, and hurled a bunch of other insults at me over this. I'm making no money from this and am already contributing a lot of my own time and money to fix what she ruined. I pointed out that I've never called her any names and want to handle this amicably and maturely, but it's up to her. I'm not upset, I'm being fair. It's unfair to withhold the rent and leave a damaged room behind and force me to pay her rent, damages, and reimburse her for her security deposit. Beyond that, I've put myself out for over 20 hours waiting for 4 separate carpet cleaning windows, moving furniture, prohibiting the new roommate from entering her room because the carpets had to be cleaned multiple times and were wet, etc. I've worked really hard to fix her room and give her her deposit back, but the room is still damaged. This hasn't been fun for me and I would not go through all of this if it wasn't so glaringly obvious that she damaged the room and is going to cost me a significant amount to repair.
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Old 10-11-2016, 04:46 AM
 
10,746 posts, read 25,867,711 times
Reputation: 16022
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernSusana View Post
Why is cleaning the carpet a problem? I would think LL would want tenants who stay multiple years to have the carpets cleaned every year.

Just asking . . . You make it sound like she's violating some policy by having professionals clean the carpet.
I didn't say she was, I said she might be. She needs to read her lease. Cleaning the carpet is one thing...bleaching, replacing and repairing is another and no landlord would want a tenant to do that without their permission or knowledge.
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Old 10-11-2016, 04:53 AM
 
10,746 posts, read 25,867,711 times
Reputation: 16022
Quote:
Originally Posted by roomieadvice101 View Post
Quick clarification! Thanks for the replies.

I understand what you're saying about the landlord's knowledge. Not exactly sure why that'd be a violation in any circumstance, because as a result my apartment is really clean. However, I live in a huge corporate complex with multiple properties throughout the area. The management company is pretty notoriously bad/useless, so there's no official "landlord." The company used to give residents free carpet cleanings as a bonus for re-signing your lease. They did away with that but have recommendations for various cleaning services that they suggest we hire on our own for these purposes.

We are in our mid to late 20s, but she is very immature (when she doesn't get her way she defies logic and reason, and spins the story to her parents and enlists them to fight her battles). I'd say her parents are definitely helicopter (but more so in encouraging her entitlement than cleaning up her messes if that makes sense). From what my roommate (who intercepted them) said, they were angry and it sounded like they came to argue on her behalf moreso than to hear what's been going on (unsurprising, because she told them I'm lying, then told them to drive hours from their house to come to my apartment without asking me if that was okay or bothering to find out if I was even home...I wasn't). Needless to say, they left stressed and unhappy about making the trip. They mistook my roommate for me (even though I've met them before) so my roommate said it seemed like they thought I was running an elaborate con by saying I wasn't home and that they'd have to have their daughter call me directly or come back when I'm there. They really operate unlike any people I've ever met.

On the flip side, she keeps reiterating that her contract was between me, her and the building and no one else and that I owe her her entire security deposit and she has proof of having paid a deposit. I told her the fact that she paid a deposit isn't in dispute, it's that her deposit needs to be applied for damages after she left her room damaged. I pointed out that she can't say things like the contract is only between me and her and then enlist her parents to talk to me in her stead because they are not involved in the contract. Now, if they want to assume responsibility for her, I have no problem with that. I took before and after pictures and explained what the problem was, and have told her she can come over and look whenever I'm home (she ignored all of this).

The building's policy (this seems pretty typical of most companies) is that they allow you to rotate roommates on and off the lease, but that the security deposit stays with the apartment until all occupants officially vacate. Thus, for damages, reimbursement of security deposits, they expect us to work it out independently. She knows this because we went through this process when she moved in, she inspected her room, and put down a deposit which then went to the previous roommate. We're going through the exact same process we did last year, the only difference is that she caused damage and the roommate prior to her didn't.

At the time damage occurred, she was on the lease and there's a damage clause. They know who she is in the office, because some of the people expressed sympathy for me having to deal with her on other occasions. She's off the lease now. I know that the building won't get involved, and how the check will be cut upon move out which is why I've been working to resolve this with her on my own. To be honest, I don't think I'm likely to see any deposit money back after this, but I'd be more than happy to reimburse her as long as she fixes the damage.

I most recently told her that she can't continue to withhold the rent she owes from me. The roommate prior to her didn't withhold pro-rated rent from her on top of agreeing to accept a loss of hundreds of dollars of her security deposit because Abigail refused to fully reimburse her (not because of damages, Abigail was just being difficult). As for her security deposit, I offered her a plethora of alternatives. She can hire her own cleaners to come in and fix it, she can fix it herself by finding out how much the building will charge to replace and restore it, etc, etc. I told her I just want it to be restored to how it was when she moved in, if her goal is to get her full security deposit back.

Otherwise, I told her that it wouldn't be fair to make the new roommate put down a security deposit to reimburse her for a room she delivered to her damaged, and it wouldn't be fair for me to do either for the same reasons. The security deposit is in place to cover damages. Professionals estimated that the carpets are going to cost in the neighborhood of 1000 or more to replace. Her deposit is barely 30% of the cost of the damages. I told her that I'd be happy to split whatever money (if any) the building gives me when I move out in a few months, but until the damage in her room is resolved, her security deposit is remaining with the building to apply toward whatever the building decides to charge for her carpets. If it's less than her deposit, she can have the difference.

She accused me of lying, the carpet cleaners of lying, the photos being doctored, and hurled a bunch of other insults at me over this. I'm making no money from this and am already contributing a lot of my own time and money to fix what she ruined. I pointed out that I've never called her any names and want to handle this amicably and maturely, but it's up to her. I'm not upset, I'm being fair. It's unfair to withhold the rent and leave a damaged room behind and force me to pay her rent, damages, and reimburse her for her security deposit. Beyond that, I've put myself out for over 20 hours waiting for 4 separate carpet cleaning windows, moving furniture, prohibiting the new roommate from entering her room because the carpets had to be cleaned multiple times and were wet, etc. I've worked really hard to fix her room and give her her deposit back, but the room is still damaged. This hasn't been fun for me and I would not go through all of this if it wasn't so glaringly obvious that she damaged the room and is going to cost me a significant amount to repair.
For the record, I did not read this word for word...what I did read was full of fluff and drama...just answer the questions asked and leave the rest out. This is between you and her and possibly your landlord.

You next option is to document all of this and when you move sue her for the damages and unpaid rent.
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Old 10-11-2016, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Rural Michigan
6,343 posts, read 14,592,804 times
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If you couldn't get a full security deposit from her when she moved in, you're not going to be receiving any unpaid rent from her. Follow the law regarding damage deposits in your state (you're likely required to notify her in writing within x days of move-out of the reason for not refunding the deposit), then either sue her or wait for her to sue you & countersue.

Suing her prolly won't get you payment, only a judgement, so most likely not worth it. I personally wouldn't replace the carpet for the new roommate, just note the damage & agree that the new tenant isn't responsible for it. Settle up with the landlord when you move & never let anyone into your house without a full deposit in the future.
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Old 10-11-2016, 09:45 AM
 
8 posts, read 38,045 times
Reputation: 10
Thank you Zippyman, that's what I wanted to know. I won't do that in the future, she was extremely nice and agreed to everything before we signed the lease. She signed and started dictating her own rules. I've learned my lesson.

For the record, Kim in FL, i wasn't suggesting to replace the carpet on my own. I was suggesting estimating what the costs would be upon move-out so that this roommate would be aware of and fully understand what her security deposit funds were going towards. I'm not taking her ride over a stupid carpet, I'm being fair.

I was detailed in my response, because you are clearly responding and adding your opinion without understanding the situation. It's not fluff and drama, I've been clear and concise with her. And if you think it's a headache to read, imagine dealing with that on a daily basis. The additional stuff about the parents and their intentions was a response to a question asked about what their involvement is.

I was trying to be fair and illustrate both sides, because she thinks I'm lying even though I've documented the damage. She damaged the carpet, her deposit has to be forfeited to fix it (however the building decides to do that), and she needs to pay the rent. End of story. I understand how leases and repairs work, what I don't understand is how to get the money she's withholding from me over it.
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Old 10-11-2016, 09:55 AM
 
8 posts, read 38,045 times
Reputation: 10
ETA: When I suggested she figure out how to fix it herself, I meant by working with the building to assess damages and what they would charge/do to fix it. I don't care that it's damaged as long as her security deposit goes towards fixing it. Accidents happen, that's what security deposits are for. She thinks I owe her the deposit in full, so she's withholding the rent.
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