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SMOKING: If you don't want anyone to smoke in the rental, then specify NO SMOKERS. You will get smokers contacting you saying they will smoke outside. I always said NO, no smokers regardless if they agree to smoke outside. The problem here is that you can't be sure if they sometimes smoke indoors if the weather is bad outside or if their phone rang. Or maybe they stand by the front door smoking while the door is open and all the smoke blows back into the home. Smokers often have friends that smoke and maybe the friend doesn't want to go outside to smoke.
PETS: If you don't want pets, specify this in the lease and also specify that no guests are allowed to visit with pets at all, unless approval, in writing, from landlord. This way you don't get someone sneaking in a pet but saying they are petsitting for their brother who is on vacation.
I have clauses in my leases for both smoking and for pets that were not disclosed upon rental or acquired later.
Particularly the smoking clause includes the entire house including the garage, and makes it absolutely clear that it will be enforced if there is any tobacco odor, that the tenant will be charged for all remediation costs if they smoke in the house.
Note that to remediate a non-smoking house rented by a smoker who smokes would probably include all of:
1. total repainting of the entire house interior
2. total replacement of carpeting
3. total cleaning of all HVAC air ducts
4. possible disassembly and cleaning of HVAC unit
5. replacement of window treatments if present (curtains)
6. steam cleaning of all tile, slate, marble or other floor and counter surfaces
I could see it easily costing over $5K to restore a non-smoking house that was smoked in to a pristine non-smoking condition.
Note that non-smokers are unlikely to rent a house that smells like tobacco.
Even with pets, I had a tenant who closed her dog in a spare bedroom during hot days (too hot to leave him outside) with no place to urinate/defecate except the carpet. I had the carpet cleaned and deodorized, didn't work. Replaced the padding, cleaned and deodorized, didn't work. Final solution was to have the entire room stripped, concrete floor sealed, entire room including walls, ceiling, doors and molding repainted with Kilz paint, then new carpeting and new padding.
It is a good idea to make sure your tenants have the financial ability to be sued to recover damages.
This tenant was a single high school principal with a good credit rating! The most ironic part of it is that only the bedrooms and halls were carpeted. This tenant could have closed the MBR suite doors and put up a baby fence at the hallway entrance, and restricted the dog's access to only slate and tiled flooring in the main part of the house.
I have clauses in my leases for both smoking and for pets that were not disclosed upon rental or acquired later.
Particularly the smoking clause includes the entire house including the garage, and makes it absolutely clear that it will be enforced if there is any tobacco odor, that the tenant will be charged for all remediation costs if they smoke in the house.
Note that to remediate a non-smoking house rented by a smoker who smokes would probably include all of:
1. total repainting of the entire house interior
2. total replacement of carpeting
3. total cleaning of all HVAC air ducts
4. possible disassembly and cleaning of HVAC unit
5. replacement of window treatments if present (curtains)
6. steam cleaning of all tile, slate, marble or other floor and counter surfaces
I could see it easily costing over $5K to restore a non-smoking house that was smoked in to a pristine non-smoking condition.
Note that non-smokers are unlikely to rent a house that smells like tobacco.
Even with pets, I had a tenant who closed her dog in a spare bedroom during hot days (too hot to leave him outside) with no place to urinate/defecate except the carpet. I had the carpet cleaned and deodorized, didn't work. Replaced the padding, cleaned and deodorized, didn't work. Final solution was to have the entire room stripped, concrete floor sealed, entire room including walls, ceiling, doors and molding repainted with Kilz paint, then new carpeting and new padding.
It is a good idea to make sure your tenants have the financial ability to be sued to recover damages.
This tenant was a single high school principal with a good credit rating! The most ironic part of it is that only the bedrooms and halls were carpeted. This tenant could have closed the MBR suite doors and put up a baby fence at the hallway entrance, and restricted the dog's access to only slate and tiled flooring in the main part of the house.
I suggest you stick to putting it in the lease and threatening with it. If you ever try to enforce it you are in for an education. If you get a smoker in a non smoker house I would certainly suggest keeping the security deposit. Might even include that as a specific in the lease. But repainting and re carpeting and duct cleaning? You gonna get killed in court. And then the tenant won't pay.
The world would be better if we did not bring up these absurd solutions with no practical implementations . You can put in the contract you get to crucify any smokers...but you will find it difficult to enforce.
It's in the lease. Fortunately I have successfully screened for non-smokers only, or any tenants and/or friends always went outside for their smokes. All I know for sure is I have never found any tobacco odor during move-out inspection.
The intent of my post was to illustrate how expensive it could cost to remediate a rental property from tobacco odor.
-People staying with friends, family or motels. Good tenants don't live with friends and family or motels. NINE out of 10 who do and contact me have all kinds of issues in their life, criminal, civil, financial.
lol? You don't rent to military then? Most military members have to stay in motels while finding a home at the new base.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tac-Sea
Renters are generally renters because they are at the bottom of the intelligence totem pole and their income reflects it.
Yeah. Gosh forbid someone rent a house in an unfamiliar area instead of jumping into home ownership in a temporary state residence.
It's in the lease. Fortunately I have successfully screened for non-smokers only, or any tenants and/or friends always went outside for their smokes. All I know for sure is I have never found any tobacco odor during move-out inspection.
The intent of my post was to illustrate how expensive it could cost to remediate a rental property from tobacco odor.
It could be a hassle to clean a home that was smoked in for many years continuously, but your supposition about "smoke blowing in while a door is open" isn't going to cause damage worthy of repair any more than tenants cooking smelly food occasionally would.
Yeah. Gosh forbid someone rent a house in an unfamiliar area instead of jumping into home ownership in a temporary state residence.
My experience is that all of my previous tenants moved because of (1) they relocated to a different area, or (2) they bought their own houses. Just in the last 3 months I lost two rentals because both bought their own homes in nearby areas. Both were previously from out of state before they rented from me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippyman
It could be a hassle to clean a home that was smoked in for many years continuously, but your supposition about "smoke blowing in while a door is open" isn't going to cause damage worthy of repair any more than tenants cooking smelly food occasionally would.
You must have misunderstood me. I would assume that smoking outside would not leave any permanent odor at all. My leases prohibit only smoking inside the house or garage.
Although at the present time I have no smoker friends, if in the future a smoker were to visit my home I would ask them to step outside on my patio when they smoke, and I'd go outside with them to continue visiting.
My rental application doesn't even ask if tenants smoke.
Last edited by Lovehound; 02-01-2017 at 09:38 AM..
My sister is an attorney and she had a similar experience with a tenant suing her (another attorney). Rental was fine, tenant literally couldn't change a light bulb so it was a "concierge service" type rental for my sister.
House had damage to the kitchen floor (wood). Looked like a mat was wet for a long period of time and it damaged the wood. She got 2 estimates and needed to redo the whole kitchen floor as it wouldn't match. Roughly $1500. Security deposit was $2500. She refunded $1000, check was never cashed. She sold the house.
8 months later he claims he never got the check. She sent out another (via FedEx), signature required. He proceeds to the bank to cash both checks (1000+1000) but she had stopped payment on the first check he claimed he never received.
He sues for $2500 (full deposit) and claimed she never redid the flooring (keep in mind house was sold shortly after rental was over). She didn't redo the floor, new owners got a credit on the closing statement showing $1500 for kitchen floor damage (they were redoing the whole kitchen anyway).
Net, net end of story was......he no shows to court, she appears and shows cancelled check, stop payment check and closing statement indicating the credit. Judge dismisses the case. Waste of time for her and tenant spent about $350 to sue for nothing.
My experience is that all of my previous tenants moved because of (1) they relocated to a different area, or (2) they bought their own houses. Just in the last 3 months I lost two rentals because both bought their own homes in nearby areas. Both were previously from out of state before they rented from me.
You must have misunderstood me. I would assume that smoking outside would not leave any permanent odor at all. My leases prohibit only smoking inside the house or garage.
Although at the present time I have no smoker friends, if in the future a smoker were to visit my home I would ask them to step outside on my patio when they smoke, and I'd go outside with them to continue visiting.
My rental application doesn't even ask if tenants smoke.
Smoke can come inside even if smoking itself is outside, directly (door is open and tenant is smoking near the door) or indirectly (smoking near air intake, or smoke getting on clothes/belongings).
If a tenant brings a lot of smoke-stenched belongings and clothes inside, it will stink the place up. Maybe not "permanently" but you'd need professional treatment to get the odors out.
I was once in an apartment that might have had this issue once. There is a reason a lot of public spaces also have a 25-feet-from-the-door rule for smoking...
8 months later he claims he never got the check. She sent out another (via FedEx), signature required. He proceeds to the bank to cash both checks (1000+1000) but she had stopped payment on the first check he claimed he never received.
The exact same thing happened to my cousin last year. The landlord wanted to get rid of him, although all along he had been sending in his rental checks. He was evicted, landlord claimed non-payment of rent, sued and recovered "unpaid" rent. My cousin had the presence of mind to stop payment on all of the contested checks, and sure as shooting the landlord attempted to cash the checks my cousin allegedly never sent. -- My cousin and I had a good laugh over this one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S
Net, net end of story was......he no shows to court, she appears and shows cancelled check, stop payment check and closing statement indicating the credit. Judge dismisses the case. Waste of time for her and tenant spent about $350 to sue for nothing.
IMO it is most likely the judge dismissed the case because the plaintiff was a no show. There is no civil case unless there are both a plaintiff and a defendant in court.
Or is there? I suspect that if the plaintiff showed up with sufficient proof of their claim and the defendant was a no show, the judge might issue a judgement in favor of the plaintiff. I am not a lawyer so this is mere speculation.
In any case there is a lesson to be learned for all landlords. Document all financial transactions, and when sending legal notices use USPS certified mail return receipt requested (or any proof of delivery signature required carrier e.g. FedEx), as proof the deposit refund was sent according to your state guidelines.
Also, my practice is in the case of multiple tenants I address the legal notice to {tenant 1} AND {tenant 2} thus requiring signatures of both tenants, and make out deposit refunds in the same way using the important word AND so that if your tenants get into a dispute between themselves you as landlord are not legally involved.
Another important event which is required in some states (maybe all, definitely mine) is that the tenant has a legal right to be present at move-out inspection. If you expect a hostile tenant, bring along your own witness. Document all claimed tenant damage with photographs, get estimates from qualified contractors for all repair costs you deduct from tenant's deposit refund.
As a sideline to the above, sometimes it is the case that my pre-inspection shows no tenant caused damage, so I merely draw a diagonal line through every section, write NO ISSUES and initial it, sign the move out form, and send the tenants a copy, including a full refund of all refundable deposits. After all, as long as you can prove your tenant(s) received a full refund, they would have no basis to cause legal problems for you. You have to show monetary damages for a successful lawsuit.
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