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Old 04-26-2017, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Brackenwood
2,691 posts, read 1,019,303 times
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Yes, late fees ARE damages -- the whole basis of late fees is that the LL suffers damages from tenant's failure to pay in a timely fashion -- and no, you don't get to sit on your hands and let late fees rack up day after day without notifying the tenant, which as far as I can see, the landlord hasn't even done yet.
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Old 04-26-2017, 07:57 PM
 
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río Porciúncula
13,587 posts, read 14,065,033 times
Reputation: 9689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitey View Post
No it isn't, it effectively doubles the rent.
Only for people who can't grasp the concept that rent is due on the contract due date.

Your lack of understanding of your contract does not exempt you from being required to honor the terms stated in your contract. You had your shot in reading it before you signed it. If there was anything inside that you didn't agree to, that was your chance to take your business elsewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitey View Post
Yes, late fees ARE damages -- the whole basis of late fees is that the LL suffers damages from tenant's failure to pay in a timely fashion -- and no, you don't get to sit on your hands and let late fees rack up day after day without notifying the tenant, which as far as I can see, the landlord hasn't even done yet.
Late fees indicate your ability to judiciously manage your personal finances is damaged. You have rented how long, AND DON'T EVEN KNOW THE RENTAL DUE DATE? (Hint: it's the same date each month!)

Dude!!!
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Old 04-26-2017, 08:37 PM
 
16,506 posts, read 17,550,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitey View Post
No it isn't, it effectively doubles the rent.


Yes he does. The law doesn't permit you to turn a damage claim into an opportunity to profit from your own inaction.
How does a late fee double the rent? It's not a compounded late fee. All you need to do is pay your rent on time and there is no late fee. So if you are NEVER late then there will NEVER be a late fee. And your rent won't double rent due date is the same every month. It doesn't change

And a LL can be damaged. If you're late with your paymeet then they may be late with their payment so that's why they are charging you a fee.
Granted it's a pretty fine line if a LL is waiting for a tenants payment to make their payment but it's not unheard of. Pretty dangerous stuff but .....it happens I'm sure.

And in whatever state they are in the LL may not have to legally do anything to notify the tenant that their rent is not received and can legally stack late fees all month long for all we know. In some states the LL may. It have to mitigate anything either. For all we know the LL sent a notice and tenant never received it
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Old 04-26-2017, 10:15 PM
 
Location: Brackenwood
2,691 posts, read 1,019,303 times
Reputation: 5422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovehound View Post
Only for people who can't grasp the concept that rent is due on the contract due date.

Your lack of understanding of your contract does not exempt you from being required to honor the terms stated in your contract. You had your shot in reading it before you signed it. If there was anything inside that you didn't agree to, that was your chance to take your business elsewhere.


Late fees indicate your ability to judiciously manage your personal finances is damaged. You have rented how long, AND DON'T EVEN KNOW THE RENTAL DUE DATE? (Hint: it's the same date each month!)

Dude!!!
I have no idea what the hell you're talking about, and I don't think you do either. If your belief is that a LL gets to assess late fees in any fashion they like even if it's contrary to law, you'd be wrong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrician4you View Post
How does a late fee double the rent? It's not a compounded late fee. All you need to do is pay your rent on time and there is no late fee. So if you are NEVER late then there will NEVER be a late fee. And your rent won't double rent due date is the same every month. It doesn't change
I'll tell you the same thing I said to the incoherent poster above: A LL doesn't get to assess late fees in a manner that is contrary to law, be that statutory or common law. And yes, in this situation it is a compound late fee. It's not just a one-time fee assessed once the rent is late. If it were, there'd be no issue here. But the LL's fee increases by $25 EVERY DAY -- that could be up to $775 in fees per month. I don't know what rental rates are like where you live but around here that'll get you a decently habitable 1br. If the LL claiming additional damages for every day the rent isn't paid, then yes he has a duty under common law to mitigate the damages. We're not talking about the LL bending over backwards here. Just notifying the tenant in a timely fashion would be sufficient.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrician4you View Post
And a LL can be damaged. If you're late with your paymeet then they may be late with their payment so that's why they are charging you a fee.
Granted it's a pretty fine line if a LL is waiting for a tenants payment to make their payment but it's not unheard of. Pretty dangerous stuff but .....it happens I'm sure.
Well no kidding a LL can be damaged. That's the whole point of writing late fees into a lease -- they are a predetermined assessment of damages for breach of contract. Nobody here is disputing that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrician4you View Post
And in whatever state they are in the LL may not have to legally do anything to notify the tenant that their rent is not received and can legally stack late fees all month long for all we know. In some states the LL may. It have to mitigate anything either. For all we know the LL sent a notice and tenant never received it
I'd like to see one example of a state that allows cumulative late fees with no duty on the LL's part to mitigate. In fact I'd bet you'd find a lot more states where failure to provide notice of late fees would constitute a waiver of those fees than assessing the fees without notice is permissible and enforceable.
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Old 04-26-2017, 10:24 PM
 
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río Porciúncula
13,587 posts, read 14,065,033 times
Reputation: 9689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitey View Post
I have no idea what the hell you're talking about, and I don't think you do either. If your belief is that a LL gets to assess late fees in any fashion they like even if it's contrary to law, you'd be wrong.



I'll tell you the same thing I said to the incoherent poster above: A LL doesn't get to assess late fees in a manner that is contrary to law, be that statutory or common law. And yes, in this situation it is a compound late fee. It's not just a one-time fee assessed once the rent is late. If it were, there'd be no issue here. But the LL's fee increases by $25 EVERY DAY -- that could be up to $775 in fees per month. I don't know what rental rates are like where you live but around here that'll get you a decently habitable 1br. If the LL claiming additional damages for every day the rent isn't paid, then yes he has a duty under common law to mitigate the damages. We're not talking about the LL bending over backwards here. Just notifying the tenant in a timely fashion would be sufficient.



Well no kidding a LL can be damaged. That's the whole point of writing late fees into a lease -- they are a predetermined assessment of damages for breach of contract. Nobody here is disputing that.


I'd like to see one example of a state that allows cumulative late fees with no duty on the LL's part to mitigate. In fact I'd bet you'd find a lot more states where failure to provide notice of late fees would constitute a waiver of those fees than assessing the fees without notice is permissible and enforceable.
You have just quoted seasoned landlords and are telling them they don't know what they are talking about. And you are a know it all flaky tenant who doesn't understand the concept of rent due date.

Am I missing something?
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Old 04-26-2017, 10:36 PM
 
Location: Brackenwood
2,691 posts, read 1,019,303 times
Reputation: 5422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovehound View Post
Am I missing something?
Plenty.
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Old 04-26-2017, 10:40 PM
 
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río Porciúncula
13,587 posts, read 14,065,033 times
Reputation: 9689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitey View Post
Plenty.
Well I have lots of company. I'm just worried some of my company might be rabid.

I'm so happy for you that as a renter you know so much more than the seasoned landlords I know on this forum, particularly Electrician4you, arguably one of the top 10 most knowledgeable LLs on this forum.
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Old 04-27-2017, 04:27 AM
 
8,322 posts, read 17,664,476 times
Reputation: 10906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitey View Post
Yes, late fees ARE damages -- the whole basis of late fees is that the LL suffers damages from tenant's failure to pay in a timely fashion -- and no, you don't get to sit on your hands and let late fees rack up day after day without notifying the tenant, which as far as I can see, the landlord hasn't even done yet.
Of course you don't sit for days on end to wait for payment. When the rent doesn't show up you issue a 3 or 7 day pay or quit and then evict if they don't pay or move out. THEN and only then do you sue for monetary damages..unpaid rent/late fees. Do you need to call? No, you don't..but you should it's only common courtesy. I can tell you that large complex and/or management companies do not call their tenants...they issue notices.

Does your electric, gas, water, or bank call you when you you're late? No, they don't..they issue you a notice or double your bill with a late fee. It all boils down paying your bills on time...novel concept to some I guess.
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Old 04-27-2017, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Boise, ID
8,011 posts, read 22,526,645 times
Reputation: 9213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitey View Post


I'd like to see one example of a state that allows cumulative late fees with no duty on the LL's part to mitigate. In fact I'd bet you'd find a lot more states where failure to provide notice of late fees would constitute a waiver of those fees than assessing the fees without notice is permissible and enforceable.
Idaho allows cumulative late fees and has no legal duty to mitigate. So there is your one example.

There is also no limit on the amount the late fees are allowed to be. However, if you end up in court suing for a judgment, the courts only approve $5 a day past the due date. So we can charge whatever we want, but the courts will only help us collect on $5/day. And they don't even ask whether you've attempted to inform the tenant the rent was late, let alone ask for proof.

Notice of late fees is provided in the lease when they sign.

However, that being said, the courts will not allow a landlord to just let the late fees accumulate for months and months and then collect at move out with no notice given. Where the line is drawn is a gray area, not defined in law. A judge would make the determination where tenant negligence to pay on time ended and landlord negligence to not evict sooner began. 2 months worth of late fees, they would probably grant. Maybe even 3. Beyond that, the landlord was negligent and late fees would probably all be waived by a judge.
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Old 04-27-2017, 08:39 AM
 
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río Porciúncula
13,587 posts, read 14,065,033 times
Reputation: 9689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacerta View Post
Idaho allows cumulative late fees and has no legal duty to mitigate.
My state too although I have never enforced that part of the lease. In one case I should have but it's too late now--I'm headed for a showdown and least termination nightmare where enforcing that clause could have put tenants on notice and avoided the showdown, or at least accelerated it and end up with me having better tenants today. Gawd, the longer you are a LL the more you learn, and the mistakes you made in handling tenants are painful and costly.
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