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Old 05-19-2017, 09:13 AM
 
Location: The City of Buffalo!
937 posts, read 357,510 times
Reputation: 412

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All I see and hear are tenants rights mostly due to New York City landlords or should I say slumlords which is completely unfair to 90% of the other landlords who are not slumlords renting multiple apartments.

Specific situation:

Two family house, always called a "double" with a upper & lower "flat".
Owner occupied upper.

Craigslist makes a big deal about using the term "mature" since it supposedly is discriminatory based solely on age. The term "mature acting" which is completely different AFAIC since one can be mature acting at 20 and immature acting at 50 years.

Being owner occupied, isn't there an exception to renting to anyone with kids?

Input?
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Phoenix AZ
5,920 posts, read 10,467,112 times
Reputation: 9227
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
All I see and hear are tenants rights mostly due to New York City landlords or should I say slumlords which is completely unfair to 90% of the other landlords who are not slumlords renting multiple apartments.

Specific situation:

Two family house, always called a "double" with a upper & lower "flat".
Owner occupied upper.

Craigslist makes a big deal about using the term "mature" since it supposedly is discriminatory based solely on age. The term "mature acting" which is completely different AFAIC since one can be mature acting at 20 and immature acting at 50 years.

Being owner occupied, isn't there an exception to renting to anyone with kids?

Input?
Owner-occupied housing has an "exemption" on a *federal* level (not sure about the state level), the problem is, you lose that exemption when you advertise on the web or in a newspaper or use mls (agents are never exempt).. so, you could, theoretically- discriminate against protected classes, but only if you advertise with a yard sign or via word-of-mouth.

Basically, you can't really discriminate in the real world..

That said, great tenants come in all colors, creeds, religions & ages.. there's no business case to discriminate against tenants except for those that don't pay their bills on time. (Which, luckily isn't a protected class).
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:45 PM
 
64,831 posts, read 66,299,886 times
Reputation: 43206
tenants have a whole bill of rights here in nyc . landlords have no such thing . they have contract law for the most part . laws protect tenants .
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Raleigh
7,038 posts, read 5,224,011 times
Reputation: 9508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippyman View Post
Owner-occupied housing has an "exemption" on a *federal* level (not sure about the state level), the problem is, you lose that exemption when you advertise on the web or in a newspaper or use mls (agents are never exempt).. so, you could, theoretically- discriminate against protected classes, but only if you advertise with a yard sign or via word-of-mouth.

Basically, you can't really discriminate in the real world..

That said, great tenants come in all colors, creeds, religions & ages.. there's no business case to discriminate against tenants except for those that don't pay their bills on time. (Which, luckily isn't a protected class).
I thought, and I may be very wrong, that the law applied specifically to the wording of the advertising, meaning, you could specifically look for a mature roommate but not not advertise it as such. Or, you could look for another young professional but not say "I want a young professional" in the ad.

The maturity example is ridiculous IMO. Mature is a character trait. There are immature 80 year olds.
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ area
2,937 posts, read 2,409,058 times
Reputation: 3372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippyman View Post
Owner-occupied housing has an "exemption" on a *federal* level (not sure about the state level), the problem is, you lose that exemption when you advertise on the web or in a newspaper or use mls (agents are never exempt).. so, you could, theoretically- discriminate against protected classes, but only if you advertise with a yard sign or via word-of-mouth.

Basically, you can't really discriminate in the real world..

That said, great tenants come in all colors, creeds, religions & ages.. there's no business case to discriminate against tenants except for those that don't pay their bills on time. (Which, luckily isn't a protected class).
You don't lose the exemption just for advertising. You lose the exemption for advertising in a discriminatory way. You may not publish or cause to be published any discriminatory language. Which basically means you can discriminate all day as long as it is never put in writing, think email responses to prospective tenants or the advertisement itself. In person you can flat out tell someone they are the wrong *blank* (fill in the blank for age, race, religion, sex, and so on) as long as you meet the other exemptions of the law nothing can be done about it.

On the federal level at least.

The OPs specific situation does have an exemption from the NY State law.

Last edited by AZ Manager; 05-19-2017 at 03:31 PM..
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Old 05-19-2017, 04:12 PM
 
Location: The City of Buffalo!
937 posts, read 357,510 times
Reputation: 412
The question here is using the term "mature acting". As in responsible & respecting others property.
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Old 05-19-2017, 04:19 PM
 
6,102 posts, read 2,513,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
tenants have a whole bill of rights here in nyc . landlords have no such thing . they have contract law for the most part . laws protect tenants .
That's because tentants are in a natural position of negative leverage so they need favorable laws to even the playing field. The land lord OWNES the property so they have a huge amount of leverage absent very strong laws. Without these laws we end up in a sort of peasent/surf society.


Yea it kinda sucks when a land lord cant just go point a gun at someone and force them because they tore the place up and haven't paid but it protects tenants from that same behavior if they have not done anything serious and just upset the land lords delicate sensabilities and so the land lord flexes his ownership muscles, that's not a society I want to live in so I will support laws that go against land lords.


If as a land lord you have some kind of wet dreams about being a fuedel lord and have all your little peasent class paying you for graciously letting them be on your land then take another nap.
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Old 05-19-2017, 04:25 PM
 
Location: The City of Buffalo!
937 posts, read 357,510 times
Reputation: 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
That's because tentants are in a natural position of negative leverage so they need favorable laws to even the playing field. The land lord OWNES the property so they have a huge amount of leverage absent very strong laws.
Please list this "huge amount of leverage" you talk about.

To be clear here I'm talking about a owner occupied two family house. Not some MDU.
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Old 05-19-2017, 04:51 PM
 
221 posts, read 228,251 times
Reputation: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
Yea it kinda sucks when a land lord cant just go point a gun at someone and force them because they tore the place up and haven't paid but it protects tenants from that same behavior if they have not done anything serious and just upset the land lords delicate sensabilities and so the land lord flexes his ownership muscles, that's not a society I want to live in so I will support laws that go against land lords.


If as a land lord you have some kind of wet dreams about being a fuedel lord and have all your little peasent class paying you for graciously letting them be on your land then take another nap.

With such animosity towards housing owners, I would be surprised you even want renting to be legal. That would really save renters for being abused for only marginally trashing the property that isn't theirs.
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:03 PM
 
6,102 posts, read 2,513,140 times
Reputation: 3893
Quote:
Originally Posted by SidewaysLS4 View Post
With such animosity towards housing owners, I would be surprised you even want renting to be legal. That would really save renters for being abused for only marginally trashing the property that isn't theirs.
I agree, I think govt owned buildings is probably the best but that will never happen so long as crony capitalists are running things. If land lords are cut out completely and govt owned all the rentals that would be ideal that way we could actually have true rent controls also.


So long as you fill out your govt paper work properly and pay your controlled non market driven rates your good to go, no fear of some insane land lord and their whims.


Also the property isent theirs but they are paying a steep premium in a lot of areas to be there and it always amazes me how indignant landlords get when some of them have paid off units and are raking in the cash. Yea if your the poor smuck who bought in WAY too high and are now upside down on the unit and cant even rent it out for enough to make the mortgage that sucks but there are land lords and conglomerates who are getting FILTHY rich off tenants and they are holding their management companies are holding tenants throats for every little thing.


There is often times very wildly divergent ideas on what is considered "trashed", when someone is paying a premium to line someone elses pockets don't expect them to treat it like its their own, the natural wear and tear is going to be greater for a rental. If you cant wrap your head around that then sell out now as life is going to suck for you.
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