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Old 05-01-2009, 07:39 AM
 
Location: SW Austin & Wimberley
6,330 posts, read 17,981,491 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hankandgracie View Post
Who repairs a clogged kitchen sink in a rental property?
Landlord or tenant?
Well, when you pull the food spooge and chicken bones out of the drain, or the plumber holds up the banana peel, or the scrubbing rag - if you are able to look at that and say "yep, that's definately the owner's - he snuck in one night and put it there", then the owner would pay.

But if it's your residue or debris clogging the drain, then the bill also belongs to you.

Steve
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Old 05-01-2009, 08:44 AM
 
199 posts, read 710,546 times
Reputation: 156
Pain and suffering is not given in a breech of contract lawsuit. If the drain is clogged due to normal wear and tear (not putting bacon grease or chicken bones or whatever) down the drain, then it is the LL's responsibility. Toilet handle broken due to abuse or normal wear and tear - w/t it is the LL's. Believe me, I have rented for over 35 years and you would not believe some of the garbage the LL will try to get away with. If your lease states washer, you have the right to have use of that washer. Good luck. Hope that you documented everything.
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:33 AM
 
28,107 posts, read 63,401,599 times
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Managing some of the same apartments/homes for almost 30 years has given me a little insight...

It's is truley amazing how the same unit can go trouble free for years with one renter, become a "Disaster" with the next and go back to being trouble free for the 2 tenants that follow...

Right now, I'm faced with replacing 37' of cast iron drain line running under the house in the crawl space... "Roto Rooter" not my favorite, told the tenant the cast iron pipes are shot and the LL needs to replace immediately and they can get a crew started with my verbal OK and credit card... no idea of total cost because it would be time and materials...

I went under last night to check and yes... almost the entire length of cast iron pipe is riddled with pin holes...

A little investigation on my part found a half used jug of sulfuric acid drain cleaner under the sink that at first no one knew how it got there

The daughter told me her boyfriend gave it to her because they started have kitchen sink drain issues a couple weeks after moving in... I cut out a section of pipe and it's 85% clogged with cooking grease... this family Fries every meal... at least every time I'm around the skillet on the stove.. the last tenant was a vegetarian and no one had drain problems.

The boyfriend came over and said they use the acid cleaner all the time at his mom's without a problem... well they have plastic pipes... not cast iron...

No question about how and why the pipes are damaged... the bottle even states may cause severe damage to cast iron plumbing

In my experience... virtually 100% of drain stoppages are tenant caused... tampons, feminine hygiene products, "disposable" cleaning items, children's toys, food, grease. Renters have no control or responsibility of tree roots.

Off topic... last week I had 2 urgent calls from a long term tenant that her door lock stopped working and she couldn't leave the house because she couldn't lock/unlock with the key... only from the inside...

Her 17 year old daughter broke up with her boyfriend and changed the locks because she had given a key to him... they put the locks in upside down causing a severe bind when trying to lock/unlock the deadbolts...

I could go on... as I'm sure just about anyone can that's been around property long enough... the point is many times owners respond to tenant caused problems... at least that is my experience...

Last edited by Ultrarunner; 05-01-2009 at 10:42 AM..
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Old 05-02-2009, 06:59 PM
 
5,019 posts, read 14,076,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
The daughter told me her boyfriend gave it to her because they started have kitchen sink drain issues a couple weeks after moving in... I cut out a section of pipe and it's 85% clogged with cooking grease... this family Fries every meal... at least every time I'm around the skillet on the stove.. the last tenant was a vegetarian and no one had drain problems...
A little bit off topic.....but I wonder if one could rent to only vegetarian tenants. One often sees "no smoking" or "no pets" in rental ads.....why not "no meat eaters" ?

Just a "hmmm" for the day.
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Old 05-02-2009, 09:46 PM
 
5 posts, read 53,008 times
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Iron drain pipes do not become 85%BLOCKED in just a few months, clearly u had neglected them too long. Nor do kitchen drains clog up from greese in jsut a few weeks after moving in unless they were dumping vats of it down the sink...but u would love to blame the tenents wouldnt u.

The pipe that i had cleared 4 weeks after moving in was clogged wtih lint and greese, I could nto possibly put that much in it in just a few weeks. When the trap was taken off that sink it turned out the pipes were nto put to gether properly either so leaked. This particular designed house had this problem as a typical maintence problem as the kitchen sink and the sink for the washer combined into the same pipe. The clog was also full of latex paint ribbons i guess from allowing the paint trays to dry too much b4 cleaning in the utility sink. How do u suppose i put those in there? I just happen to be in that house when the last of the bits finally called it quits.

Funny the management company at the last rental house was so wonderful i followed them when one house was taken from thier care and put in some very odd persons care. I called them perhaps once or twice a year and it all worked out well for all. You are a landlord i would move out of...to accuse everyone of being responsible for your responsibilities is typical of your kind.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Managing some of the same apartments/homes for almost 30 years has given me a little insight...

It's is truley amazing how the same unit can go trouble free for years with one renter, become a "Disaster" with the next and go back to being trouble free for the 2 tenants that follow...

Right now, I'm faced with replacing 37' of cast iron drain line running under the house in the crawl space... "Roto Rooter" not my favorite, told the tenant the cast iron pipes are shot and the LL needs to replace immediately and they can get a crew started with my verbal OK and credit card... no idea of total cost because it would be time and materials...

I went under last night to check and yes... almost the entire length of cast iron pipe is riddled with pin holes...

A little investigation on my part found a half used jug of sulfuric acid drain cleaner under the sink that at first no one knew how it got there

The daughter told me her boyfriend gave it to her because they started have kitchen sink drain issues a couple weeks after moving in... I cut out a section of pipe and it's 85% clogged with cooking grease... this family Fries every meal... at least every time I'm around the skillet on the stove.. the last tenant was a vegetarian and no one had drain problems.

The boyfriend came over and said they use the acid cleaner all the time at his mom's without a problem... well they have plastic pipes... not cast iron...

No question about how and why the pipes are damaged... the bottle even states may cause severe damage to cast iron plumbing

In my experience... virtually 100% of drain stoppages are tenant caused... tampons, feminine hygiene products, "disposable" cleaning items, children's toys, food, grease. Renters have no control or responsibility of tree roots.

Off topic... last week I had 2 urgent calls from a long term tenant that her door lock stopped working and she couldn't leave the house because she couldn't lock/unlock with the key... only from the inside...

Her 17 year old daughter broke up with her boyfriend and changed the locks because she had given a key to him... they put the locks in upside down causing a severe bind when trying to lock/unlock the deadbolts...

I could go on... as I'm sure just about anyone can that's been around property long enough... the point is many times owners respond to tenant caused problems... at least that is my experience...
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Old 05-03-2009, 12:41 AM
 
28,107 posts, read 63,401,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lauras2u View Post
Iron drain pipes do not become 85%BLOCKED in just a few months, clearly u had neglected them too long. Nor do kitchen drains clog up from greese in jsut a few weeks after moving in unless they were dumping vats of it down the sink...but u would love to blame the tenents wouldnt u.

The pipe that i had cleared 4 weeks after moving in was clogged wtih lint and greese, I could nto possibly put that much in it in just a few weeks. When the trap was taken off that sink it turned out the pipes were nto put to gether properly either so leaked. This particular designed house had this problem as a typical maintence problem as the kitchen sink and the sink for the washer combined into the same pipe. The clog was also full of latex paint ribbons i guess from allowing the paint trays to dry too much b4 cleaning in the utility sink. How do u suppose i put those in there? I just happen to be in that house when the last of the bits finally called it quits.

Funny the management company at the last rental house was so wonderful i followed them when one house was taken from thier care and put in some very odd persons care. I called them perhaps once or twice a year and it all worked out well for all. You are a landlord i would move out of...to accuse everyone of being responsible for your responsibilities is typical of your kind.
Everyone has an opinion and sometimes personalities do clash... The majority of my renters have been with me over 10 years and the longest nearly 20...

I was getting a lot of turn-over in a small building with all one bedroom units... typically I would rent to a single or couple and then they would have a child and really needed/wanted a second bedroom... tenants stayed an average of about 24 months.

The case I sited was in fact "Vats" of grease regularly being poured down my 1 1/2 line and it really took no time for it plug... it's about 35' long and pitched slightly less than 1/4" per foot... code requires 1/8" minimum... fry grease quickly congeals when it hits cold cast iron... residential pipes aren't designed for grease like restaurant plumbing with code required grease interceptors... it helped that her son admitted to it and the mother had no idea and thought he had been putting it in the trash.

I'm a CA state certified arbitrator and hear automotive and construction cases... It's never a question of blame... only a determination made after examining the facts...

I'm pleased the facts related to your plumbing problem were able to show paint had been improperly disposed of down the drain combined with improper installation of the DWV piping.

Grease should never go down the drain ever... plumbing can't handle it and it a few basic precautions is all it takes to be safe.... my grandmother always had an empty milk carton handy to pour out the old grease and then she would wipe the skillet or pot with old newspaper...

She lived in her home 45 years and never had to call a plumber except for the time I decided to flush my baby brother's cloth diaper down the toilet... boy did I catch it... not from my Grandmother... but, from my Mother when she found out
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Old 05-03-2009, 09:37 AM
 
3,644 posts, read 10,907,656 times
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It's is truley amazing how the same unit can go trouble free for years with one renter, become a "Disaster" with the next and go back to being trouble free for the 2 tenants that follow...

Yes, it is.

For instance, our LL spent the first 3-4 weeks after we moved in saying, "But the LAST tenants never had that problem".

Well, the LAST tenants never hooked up a clothes dryer. We know this because after attempting to clean the hose ourselves and the LL's above refrain, my dh & I decided to open up the wall and retreive the parts of the cleaning apparatus (really cool dryer vent brush that extended over 36 ft... length of vent was 48 ft tho) ourselves that had gotten stuck... the dryer hose was rotted out inside the wall... there is NO WAY the previous tenant had used the dryer vent with any success. We had a similar situation with the garbage disposal -though it made noise when we were checking out the house and during the walk thru, the first time I put pasta down it, the sinks backed up (a couple days after we moved in). Again, previous tenant lived there 2 years and never complained ONCE. (Yes, we re-drywalled - but LL offered to pay for materials and also for the dryer vent thing that we bought)

The toilet flush chains (inside the tanks) were all rusted and on their last legs... discovered this after the first one broke, so we checked all 4. As to the last tenant... exactly HOW did they MISS that the backdoor would pop open when not locked when the humidity level went up above 15%? Or that the door leading to the garage would NOT close (or lock) during the same humidity level (above 15%)? I'm sure the fact that there was NO caulk around the tub or toilets was also caused by us during the first weeks we were there... or that when the plumber came out to check out the toilet issues he noted that the upstairs toilets did not have wax rings? Again, must be US... because the previous tenant "never complained". The moldy smell that because obvious after the fresh paint smell faded in my ds's bedroom? Mold in the attic... again... WE must've grown that in the first 2 weeks too?

Comparing tenants isn't an accurate way to judge them. For instance, we LIVE in the homes we rent... not quite sure what the last tenants did there.. but I do know they didn't cook, clean behind the frig (first time I wiped the baseboard behind it, it fell apart under my rag... rotted wood), use the doors, toilets or do laundry. The list goes on and on. Our LLs (luckily) chose to come out and actually INSPECT these things as we found them. Annoyed at first, they quickly realized that their former tenants had neglected the property horribly... a GOOD tenant lets a LL know when there is a problem and doesn't just sweep it under the rug, so to speak.
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Old 05-03-2009, 10:31 AM
 
3,732 posts, read 12,351,224 times
Reputation: 6859
Quote:
Originally Posted by sskkc View Post
It's is truley amazing how the same unit can go trouble free for years with one renter, become a "Disaster" with the next and go back to being trouble free for the 2 tenants that follow...

Yes, it is.

For instance, our LL spent the first 3-4 weeks after we moved in saying, "But the LAST tenants never had that problem".

Well, the LAST tenants never hooked up a clothes dryer. We know this because after attempting to clean the hose ourselves and the LL's above refrain, my dh & I decided to open up the wall and retreive the parts of the cleaning apparatus (really cool dryer vent brush that extended over 36 ft... length of vent was 48 ft tho) ourselves that had gotten stuck... the dryer hose was rotted out inside the wall... there is NO WAY the previous tenant had used the dryer vent with any success. We had a similar situation with the garbage disposal -though it made noise when we were checking out the house and during the walk thru, the first time I put pasta down it, the sinks backed up (a couple days after we moved in). Again, previous tenant lived there 2 years and never complained ONCE. (Yes, we re-drywalled - but LL offered to pay for materials and also for the dryer vent thing that we bought)

The toilet flush chains (inside the tanks) were all rusted and on their last legs... discovered this after the first one broke, so we checked all 4. As to the last tenant... exactly HOW did they MISS that the backdoor would pop open when not locked when the humidity level went up above 15%? Or that the door leading to the garage would NOT close (or lock) during the same humidity level (above 15%)? I'm sure the fact that there was NO caulk around the tub or toilets was also caused by us during the first weeks we were there... or that when the plumber came out to check out the toilet issues he noted that the upstairs toilets did not have wax rings? Again, must be US... because the previous tenant "never complained". The moldy smell that because obvious after the fresh paint smell faded in my ds's bedroom? Mold in the attic... again... WE must've grown that in the first 2 weeks too?

Comparing tenants isn't an accurate way to judge them. For instance, we LIVE in the homes we rent... not quite sure what the last tenants did there.. but I do know they didn't cook, clean behind the frig (first time I wiped the baseboard behind it, it fell apart under my rag... rotted wood), use the doors, toilets or do laundry. The list goes on and on. Our LLs (luckily) chose to come out and actually INSPECT these things as we found them. Annoyed at first, they quickly realized that their former tenants had neglected the property horribly... a GOOD tenant lets a LL know when there is a problem and doesn't just sweep it under the rug, so to speak.
This is an excellent, excellent post. DH & I rented for quite a number of years due to his work and we ran into that refrain over & over again from different LLs. We took the same hands on approach as you did. (Fix the blasted problem and then argue about it). Some times the LL would own up and repay us for the repair sometimes we had to eat the cost. In the end though, the problem was fixed! I think its pretty even, for every really bad landlord there is a equally bad tenant that offsets. Thank goodness that the same goes for good LLs and good tenants!
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Old 05-03-2009, 12:21 PM
 
28,107 posts, read 63,401,599 times
Reputation: 23222
Quote:
Originally Posted by sskkc View Post
It's is truley amazing how the same unit can go trouble free for years with one renter, become a "Disaster" with the next and go back to being trouble free for the 2 tenants that follow...

Yes, it is.

For instance, our LL spent the first 3-4 weeks after we moved in saying, "But the LAST tenants never had that problem".

Well, the LAST tenants never hooked up a clothes dryer. We know this because after attempting to clean the hose ourselves and the LL's above refrain, my dh & I decided to open up the wall and retreive the parts of the cleaning apparatus (really cool dryer vent brush that extended over 36 ft... length of vent was 48 ft tho) ourselves that had gotten stuck... the dryer hose was rotted out inside the wall... there is NO WAY the previous tenant had used the dryer vent with any success. We had a similar situation with the garbage disposal -though it made noise when we were checking out the house and during the walk thru, the first time I put pasta down it, the sinks backed up (a couple days after we moved in). Again, previous tenant lived there 2 years and never complained ONCE. (Yes, we re-drywalled - but LL offered to pay for materials and also for the dryer vent thing that we bought)

The toilet flush chains (inside the tanks) were all rusted and on their last legs... discovered this after the first one broke, so we checked all 4. As to the last tenant... exactly HOW did they MISS that the backdoor would pop open when not locked when the humidity level went up above 15%? Or that the door leading to the garage would NOT close (or lock) during the same humidity level (above 15%)? I'm sure the fact that there was NO caulk around the tub or toilets was also caused by us during the first weeks we were there... or that when the plumber came out to check out the toilet issues he noted that the upstairs toilets did not have wax rings? Again, must be US... because the previous tenant "never complained". The moldy smell that because obvious after the fresh paint smell faded in my ds's bedroom? Mold in the attic... again... WE must've grown that in the first 2 weeks too?

Comparing tenants isn't an accurate way to judge them. For instance, we LIVE in the homes we rent... not quite sure what the last tenants did there.. but I do know they didn't cook, clean behind the frig (first time I wiped the baseboard behind it, it fell apart under my rag... rotted wood), use the doors, toilets or do laundry. The list goes on and on. Our LLs (luckily) chose to come out and actually INSPECT these things as we found them. Annoyed at first, they quickly realized that their former tenants had neglected the property horribly... a GOOD tenant lets a LL know when there is a problem and doesn't just sweep it under the rug, so to speak.
All good points... I think the biggest problem I ever had was with a Brand New building. I was part of the lease-up and property management team ... I was naive and thought this is a new building so there shouldn't be any problems right?

Some of the items you describe appear to be from poor preparation on the Owner's part... others should NEVER OCCUR, such as missing toilet wax rings...

I've only had one instance in a property I own where the ring was missing... I know because I installed a new bathroom floor and toilet prior to that tenant moving-in... I was at the property and my tenant asked why water was appearing on the floor everytime the toilet was used My first thought was the new toilet was loose or cracked...

Upon investigation, I found one of the flange bolts missing, the toilet was rocking and when I pulled it, most of the wax ring was gone... she had a friend pull the toilet because her toddler dropped a toy from a McDonald's kids meal in it...

I can't imagine any Owner skimping on a $2 wax ring when the alternative is thousands of dollars in damage and creating a possible health hazard

I expect to see a spike in service/maintenance issues during the first month... even for the best prepped units...

Last weekend I helped my brother get a duplex ready to rent... both units happened to be empty, so it was the perfect time.

Mostly it's just the obvious stuff I check...

Check every electric outlet, switch, light fixture to insure it's safe, secure and functioning... those little pocket testers come in handy to verify grounded outlets. I always have a case of 60w light bulbs on hand.

Check all plumbing... sink traps for soundness and leakage, verify drains drain, faucets don't drip, handles and levers secure and intact... My city now allows plastic P-traps so its easy to open the trap for cleaning... everything from jewelry, tooth brushes, coins and especially small toys... I'm slowly converting to Moen Faucets and so far faucet washer are becoming a thing of the past...

Toilets... make sure they flush, fill and operate properly... check for leaking tank bolts and make sure the stool is secure to the floor.

Tub... I run my Spartan Snake through the tub and shower traps to remove accumulated hair...

Appliances... thankfully this is no longer my problem... unless there is a built in oven/cooktop... We stopped supplying appliances years ago... 40 to 50% of my urgent maintenance calls eliminated no more Christmas morning emergency calls because the range stopped working, no more 3-4 hour deep cleans and searching for missing knobs, racks and no more, "I lost $500 worth of food because the refrigerator stopped working the day before the 4th of July..." I still have a few that I'm responsible for because it's in the Rental Agreement... I posted about my 2am Christmas Day emergency stove call and I remember thinking this is WHY I don't supply free standing appliance.

Windows/Doors... no broken or damaged glass, all doors open and close without rubbing and all locks latch. Locks re-keyed... I'm trying my first set on Kwikset Rekeyable Locks WITHOUT having to change the pins... sounds great if it works as advertised Make sure all door stops in place. Make sure one Window Screen per Room.

New Paint... always walls, sometimes not ceilings...

Clean or replace Carpets. Clean Vinyl...

Cabinets... clean with all hinges and latches in place and working.

Test Phone LINE... make sure to remove all tenant installed extensions and jacks... I'm responsible to insure and maintain one working jack per unit... I will leave other properly installed jacks at my discretion.

Remove "Bootleg" Cable... no wires running under carpet or over doorways.

Recharge/Replace Kitchen Fire Extinguisher

NEW smoke detector in each bedroom with an additional one in the hall on each floor.

Check Mailbox and Unit House Number.

Laundry... cap all unused hose bibs and gas valves... early I had a disaster when a tenant's child was playing with the washing machine water faucets and left one dripping... since then, I cap all facets...

Water Heater... set heater no higher than 120F and note this on Rental Agreement... test Pressure/Temperature/Relief Valve for operation and make sure all indoor water heaters have a catch pan piped to daylight in the event of leakage.

Furnace... Service Furnace... clean and adjust burners, pilot, install new filter and adjust/replace belt.

Comparing occupancies isn't perfect... but, it does provide a track history of each unit and helps with the scheduled maintenance... I have one property that is on contract with a Rooter Company... every 4 months the main line is cleaned at $80... city trees to blame and they are protected...

The dryer vent with the long run is longer than code would approve in my jurisdiction... you will probably need to keep an eye on it because it's sure to be a recurring problem

Last edited by Ultrarunner; 05-03-2009 at 12:50 PM..
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Old 05-04-2009, 06:49 AM
 
3,644 posts, read 10,907,656 times
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The dryer vent with the long run is longer than code would approve in my jurisdiction... you will probably need to keep an eye on it because it's sure to be a recurring problem

The house was BUILT that way... weird! The LL ended up paying us to move it tho... now the run is about 15 ft... and the dryer works! ( I bought a new one when we moved in, thinking it was MY dryer's fault the clothes weren't getting dry... $500 later, we knew it was the vent. We bought a really nice dryer from the "dinged" section and so couldn't return it... not that I'd want to)
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