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It's sad when I read someone's response to someone's frustration about their upstairs neighbors NOT being considerate. What, are you one of those inconsiderate neighbors too? It affects your sanity living underneath someone who is inconsiderate. I lived above a family for years and practically tiptoed because I was "considerate." I have moved into a condo and the new tenants upstairs walk unbelievably heavy at 11:30-12:00 at night. It's called being considerate. I have asked them nicely and they have seemed to stop for a while, but then they start up again, so I left them a note. She knocked on my door and was extremely rude and said that is how she walks. No it isn't because they stopped walking heavy after I spoke with them before about it. If they want to keep making noise late at night, I will continue knocking on their door and/or leaving notes and possibly call the police, especially if it's 11:30-12:00 at night. I've spoken to management about it and they sent them a letter. Sometimes they are quiet but often they are not.
You're going to call the police over your neighbors walking in their apartment??? What do you expect your neighbors to do? Float? I doubt the police will do anything about them just walking. It's not their fault the building isn't sound proof.
Here's a suggestion. Instead of making their lives miserable ON PURPOSE for simply living how about you rent an upstairs apartment? Because are you really so Damn entitled that your poor neighbors can't even walk around freely? I mean how dare they walk on the floor and disturb you? They should learn to fly right?
I had to join just to respond to this as someone with personal experience (six moves to find the right place), a dash of psychology education, and a family who raised her to have a little empathy. It's encouraging to see so many people banding together about this. Haven't seen a post like this reading through, so here's the deal specifically with footsteps/loud walking, something the cops and landlord really aren't obligated to help with by law:
1. Some people CANNOT just "get used to" the noise. Whether you were raised in a detached home, are losing a bit of lower-Hz hearing, or just fall into the personality (Myers-Briggs) category that can't handle excessive sensory stimulation, it might be impossible for you to get used to it. If you find the noise is bothering you more and more over time, you're not a fan of crowds, or you prefer to work in a quieter environment, you're probably one of these people. Conditions like chronic pain and PTSD contribute as well.
Don't let the shallow thinkers telling you to "get over it" get to you. Usually, the people who are being loud are not this type and can't understand why it bothers you so much, hence the too-often-seen flippant attitude. Your very best bet is to ensure you live on the top floor so that the only noises you hear are ones that take effort to make and can therefore easily be changed. Much more realistic than "just buy a house" - who the heck rents if they have the money to buy?
2. Earplugs and white noise won't usually help footsteps. Those deep, low vibrations will cut right into earplugs and in fact earplugs can make you more sensitive to noise overall or even make the footsteps sound louder because they silence everything but. Brown or **pink** noise (you can buy or download high-quality MP3s) or background MP3s with thunderstorms and the like (variant, lower Hz noises) will help to break up lower vibrations. My air purifier is my saving grace for this (normal fans don't work as well). Air conditioners can be wonderful as well. Not always allowed year-round, but of you sleep better with yours on you NEED a pink noise generator of some kind.
3. It doesn't matter how flat-footed/inelegant/heavy you are, anyone can walk quietly. Unless you've lived alone since you were born, you know how to pad quietly when everyone else in your dwelling is asleep. Do this in an apartment even if you live alone; just like family members sleeping in other rooms, you're in the same building and most are soundproofed to minimum and therefore cheaper standards. Being a landlord is damned expensive these days and unless they live there and own the building, trust me, they don't care as you're usually locked in to the lease.
However, you cannot expect someone to make an effort to walk quietly outside of noise law hours unless you think it's bad enough that the police would agree with you - sorry! If you work nights and sleep throughout the day, unfortunately it is up to your neighbours to be polite, and if you're up at night, too bad for you, you need to keep it down. ((EDIT: This goes for everyone, but YES, some people do walk louder than others and yes, it does sound like stomping - most people don't need to make an effort to walk quietly at night in a building with basic insulation. Weight doesn't usually affect this unless extreme. It takes less muscle control to "stomp" and you'll find the culprits are often short-legged (so have the space to make lazy strides) or not athletic. Most of us save this type of walking for long straightaways and outdoors. If you walk the same indoors and out, you're probably a "stomper".))
4. It's cliche, but getting regular exercise (more than walking the dog) and increasing your health helps in every way. Not with extreme noise, of course, but in terms of making sure you're the right amount of tired at the right time, lowering your stress level and chance of exacerbating health conditions, and increasing your confidence help with every aspect of this issue. I won't go on about this one.
Overall, footsteps and like noises are a whole other category unto themselves. It doesn't matter if the complainant doesn't wake up to squealing bus brakes or train whistles outside; they are NOT the same monster at all. Plus, other noise problems people mention here ARE actually the responsibility of landlords and law enforcement to deal with.
Apartment living usually sucks; fact is, us tenants are usually stressed enough with money issues and crappy buildings whose maintenance and quality we have no control over. We're often paying the price of a mortgage for no return. If noise machines, living on the top floor, asking nicely, and complaining to the landlord/police are not working, you have to move. Moving also sucks, and no, it's not fair, but the toll loud neighbours, and especially rude loud neighbours, can actually take on your health is well worth the temporary stress and cost if trying to get used to it just isn't cutting it. Although technically most place have by-laws against noise in apartments at all times, the landlord or building manager has to be there to hear it in order to give a noise complaint and if the person hasn't listened to you, they're probably an arse and you risk retaliation on their part - extra noise now that they know it bothers you, or even vandalism and things you can't prove or would be too costly to prove in court.
Your local landlord and tenant board can tell you how to get out of a lease if things are too bad to wait it out and the landlord won't offer a transfer. If it IS that bad, look into transferring your lease or subletting the unit with the option to take over. You can place an ad on Kijiji. Don't sit there and take it, for your sake and for that of future tenants if we're ever going to making better soundproofing a requirement. In a world where you can live in a corporate, inspected, to-code building and still hear someone pee through the walls (true story, as though you could doubt it after this thread), you gotta take a little action!
I'd add that there's no escape from subwoofer bass when it reaches a certain volume, upper floor or not. It's one of the scourges of modern life and leases should be re-written to address it. A common scenario is when midrange and highs don't pass through the wall but bass does, and the neighbor claims only the first two count as noise. Why are people so pathologically dishonest?
RE point #2, I find brown (or Brownian) noise to be the best overall masker with its lower frequency components. You can make white/brown/pink noise yourself with Audacity, GoldWave, etc. Get some computer speakers with a decent subwoofer and it beats many of the commercial sound machines (don't push the bass component outside your own walls, of course).
You are very right that some people can never adapt to noise, nor should they have to in evolutionary terms. Our nervous systems didn't evolve to deal with electronic gear and engine noises. I have a very hard time sleeping with even low-level unnatural patterns that the mind latches onto. People were meant to sleep with the types of sounds only nature generates.
Those "noise law hours" are a raw deal for shift workers or someone with insomnia trying to catch up. You are right that apartment life sucks but I blame it on people's inability to be reasonable, not apartments per se. If a higher-thinking, fair-minded species inhabited this planet apartments could be a lot more livable. Human nature is what ultimately sucks. Sorry to offend the species but it's true!
A note on earplugs and white noise machines...hate to say it but even the heaviest-duty (and uncomfortable in the long term) Hearos 33dB noise reducing earplugs don't knock out thuds and bass, firsthand experience for about 12 years of putting up with a noisy upstairs neighbor.
Higher pitch noises, yes very well, but lower, bassier noises like heavy footfalls or music cranked with bass, they don't help, especially with most wood framed apartments/stacked condos. One would think when constructing them, they would put in some decent noise-deadening insulation between floors but most, if not all, don't. Its expensive to do at first, but it saves on reducing turnover I'm sure.
White noise machines are basically useless, you cannot get them loud enough to knock out this type of noise and living in the northern US as I do, running a loud box fan is not the greatest thing during the winter. Makes a decent, cheap white noise machine that is loud on high setting, but it isn't very conducive in the wintertime.
The 30-something skinny as all get out, but heavy heelwalker girl upstairs is bad enough, but when her family and friends from all over come to stay for a time, it is a total nightmare. Seemed all of the people are up day and night at different intervals making my life a living hell and since she has relatives on another continent, they tend to stay a LONG time when visiting.
I've visited a lot of these type of websites and read tons of similar or worse stories. I finally gave up and am selling the condo. I just hope showings/open houses aren't mucked up by the one-skinny-woman wrecking crew upstairs.
I'm finished with apartments or anything with a shared wall or ceiling/floor. Alternately, I've heard horror stories about people living below and beside as well, usually loud TV/stereos, not looked after children or pets. Now, I do realize the end all is not always moving to a free-standing structure, you can get undisciplined, rude, obnoxious and discourteous neighbors there as well, but I want never to hear the thud of a footstep above me EVER again.
I took it long enough and like all of you, endured much of the same things like profound lack of sleep, not being able to sit and relax without a barrage of noise from above, etc, etc. Most times I dreaded even coming home or being home on a day off and that's a pretty sad situation considering you are paying for a 'roof over your head'. I did have a 1-stall detached garage and crazy as it may sound, sometimes I would sleep or try to nap in there on an air mattress, on a freaking concrete floor, with a space heater or indoor-safe short use propane heater when it was cold out, or a fan when it was warm outside. Now that's ridiculous.
Good points. Earplugs can actually make bass more annoying because that's all you hear, so it stands out a bit more.
Brown(ian) noise can do an OK job masking "subtle" bass if you rig it to a subwoofer (used in moderation). It creates a grainy rumbling that you can still sleep to, along with enough hiss to mask some higher frequencies. Large box fans seem to have a brown noise aspect but those can be uncomfortable in winter no matter where you aim them in a room.
I just move in to a town house with 3 guys. 2 live upstairs and 1 at the basement. The two guys upstairs seems to be normal people but the one renting the basement is totally unfriendly since the first day I move in. We all 4 share common areas like kitchen, dining room and living room.
My kids visit me every other weekend. We were having a breakfast Saturday around 9:30 pm. The dining room is on top of the basement, so we were eating and he came out yelling f**** and banging the refrigerator door in front of my kids and complaining about steps upstairs.
He basically explain to me that he doesn't want any body walking on the kitchen or dining room floor when he is home. Because he work all the week and the only days he stay home is Saturday and Sunday and no body was using the dining room before I move in.
He even complaint me making to much noise going up and down the stairs. So, basically what this guy wants is me getting out of my bedroom thru the window or may be I should install a poll like a fire man so he cannot listen to my steps going in and out of the house. I understand is common sense and exist rules like quit hours. But you know Saturday morning 9:30 am for him was so disrespect full from me been walking at the dining. Room or even putting dishes in the sink. What a difficult people we found in live. Since the first day he didn't answer to my greeting when I meet him at the door for the first time. I believe his attitude is due to my nationality, I am the only one who is not United States citizen. Forgive me for moving in.
Noise levels often vary by nationality and "culture," also. There are two sides to these stories but I can only speculate on who's being unfair the most. He is obviously unhappy with the new noise on days he used to catch up on sleep. Noise can make people temporarily or chronically angry.
Misery really loves company. I'm at the point where I'm telling myself I'm nuts because of this exact same problem.
I've been renting for a decade and a half, and I've never had a situation as bad as the one I'm in now.
I made it a point to ask about the noise prior to moving in, since I had college kids living above me doing the 4AM stomp at my last apartment. "Oh, it's fine, no complaints from the prior tenant." Next thing I know, the three children (all under 5yrs) are practicing for their Olympic debut about fifteen years early.
After they move out (Laaaaaaaa!) more college kids move in. Things weren't too bad until one of them moved out and another roommate moved in. This roommate is a "heel walker" as are her friends.
The vibration and pounding is so bad, pots and pans shake loudly while inside my closed cupboards. I limit myself from living in part of my apartment because of this. Visitors feel the shaking, then look around in wonderment, and stare at me like I'm crazy for living with this bull. They ask me if I have obese people living upstairs. My issue, is that the layout of my apartment limits placement of my bed. Doors, fixtures, and architecture only allow for my bed to be placed adjacent to a wall that borders their front stairwell containing a 100yo oak door. This door shakes my entire apartment when closed, not to mention me out of bed. 2AM, 3AM, 4AM. I haven't had 8 solid hours of sleep in months. My mood has been affected. Headaches are a daily occurrence. The landlord is squeamish and will not help. He is getting annoyed with me that I'm complaining about this. I have written "nice" notes asking for them to please use the side door after 11PM, as no other tenant in years had used the front entrance. They now slam the doors harder all the time and especially after 11PM.
I've lived in a lot of different apartments and on every floor, and am extremely tolerant. When I am unable to get a solid sleep, or there is an orchestra in my cupboards, something is wrong. White noise does not drown out earthquakes...er...housequakes.
Like I said, it's somewhat comforting to find out that I'm not the only one. I'd rather not sink down to their level and begin creating disruptions of my own, but with no help from the landlord, what can I do? I've documented everything so far. Has anyone had any success? I cannot afford to move out in the foreseeable future and I do dream solely (during my 3-4hrs of sleep) of home ownership like the rest of us.
"Oh, it's fine, no complaints from the prior tenant." is classic landlord bull. They act like noise only exists if someone puts the effort into complaining and wants to deal with potential fallout. Very devious. They must know that many people are too meek to complain, and the noise doesn't mysteriously vanish just because they aren't told about it. There's also a strong no-snitch culture among certain groups who feel like they'd be ratting out neighbors to "oppressors." I know this firsthand and it pays to find out what your neighbors look like whenever possible.
Dont' flatter yourself, your nationality has nothing to do with it..it's about hearing noise in a basement. You not living in an apt building, you're sharing a house, and he's going to hear noise in the basement.
You just smile and nod whenever he rants and raves...and double check your lease that you're allowed to have overnight visitors. He can demand whatever he wants, but unless you're breaking the law or violating the lease, those demands are just hot air.
If he continues with this behavior, talk to the landlord and see what they can or will do about it.
I get the impression you're a bit lacking in the conscience department. There's more to noise policy than just doing what you're technically allowed to get away with (passive-aggressive stuff). It comes down to degrees of volume and context. Some people have no real ability to empathize with others.
My take on this little story is that the guy probably has solid grievances, but living in a basement is the worst choice if you want to avoid sonic downdrafts.
You're going to call the police over your neighbors walking in their apartment??? What do you expect your neighbors to do? Float? I doubt the police will do anything about them just walking. It's not their fault the building isn't sound proof.
You and many others can't handle the concept of common decency. It goes like this:
Everyone knows that apartments aren't ideal and noise gets transmitted through floors and walls. In a perfect world, all would agree that they all win when they're all as quiet as possible.
Knowing that everyone is in the same boat, decent people make an effort to make life easier for their neighbors.
But selfish people take a "me, me, me!" attitude and make no effort because they are selfish to begin with. Some of it has to do with age (younger people tend to be more into loud music and parties) but the rest of it is lack of empathy, which I consider a facet of evil if one never outgrows it.
After skimming this 40 page topic and seeing so many issues with noisy neighbors, a universal solution seems to emerge for me.
Move as soon as possible. You can control where you live. You cannot control noisy neighbors. If you are in a lease discuss it with your manager and ask them to release you from your lease, or in lieu of that request them to begin showing your apartment to prospective renters and give you a move-out date when new renters have been obtained. It is not unusual for unwilling tenants to be released from their lease by this method.
It's easier to remove yourself from the apartment or other rental than it is to control the behavior of other individuals.
But there's the detail of greener noise pastures often being an illusion, unless you move to a dwelling where all your neighbors are accounted for and long-timers.
If people could simply move to get away from noise, nobody would have noise problems in the first place! It's the old chicken and egg loop.
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It's encouraging to see so many people banding together about this. Haven't seen a post like this reading through, so here's the deal specifically with footsteps/loud walking, something the cops and landlord really aren't obligated to help with by law:
