Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Real Estate > Renting
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-19-2009, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis, IN
914 posts, read 4,437,278 times
Reputation: 854

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Also, non refundable deposits are not permitted in any circumstances...

The term of notice is based on the interval rent is paid... a month to month only requires 30 days notice from the tenant to vacate.

Aside from rent and the cost of advertising... you would be hard pressed to prove any physical damage to a unit not moved into...
Really, this is what I was wondering about. Because this is different than a security deposit, collected to cover damage, to be refunded when the tenant vacates. This is to hold the apartment, and I think there are some states that make a distinction. This is why I suggested that just reading the law might not be enough: you might be able to call this something other than a "security deposit" in the traditional sense.

And this is legal in some states (probably the majority). I have lived several places where, if we did not move in right away, we were required to pay some money to "hold" the apartment. (In Montana they even had a special name for it, but I don't remember what it was.) When we moved in, the money we paid was then applied to the security deposit. If we didn't move in, they could keep all or some of the money, according to the paperwork we signed. Of course, we did sign paperwork indicating that we understood we would forfeit the deposit, which didn't happen in this case. But on the other hand you could argue that is the nature of putting a deposit on something. Based on the account, the renter does appear to have understood that she was making a payment to hold the apartment.

This seems to me like such a legal gray area. That is why I would definitely ask a lawyer. If the OP gets taken to court over this, and it turns out she was wrong, she is also going to have to pay the legal fees, and that can get expensive!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-19-2009, 01:23 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,077 posts, read 28,482,317 times
Reputation: 18189
To my knowledge, holding deposits can be non refundable after a
certain period of time, however, without any terms or conditions,
verbal or written, only a judge can decide the outcome.
If this were me in the situation, I would be willing to
compromise and return half of the deposit. Let her proceed to court
if she still wishes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2009, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Columbia, California
6,664 posts, read 30,541,684 times
Reputation: 5178
File a counter suit if she sues for the loss of rent on her holding the room.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2009, 10:49 PM
 
28,107 posts, read 63,486,210 times
Reputation: 23225
For those interested how it works in California:

Under California law, a lease or rental agreement cannot say that a security deposit is "nonrefundable. This means that when the tenancy ends, the landlord must return to you any payment that is a security deposit, unless the landlord properly uses the deposit for a lawful purpose, as described below and under Refunds of Security Deposits.

Almost all landlords charge tenants a security deposit. The security deposit may be called "last month's rent," "security deposit," "pet deposit," "key fee," or "cleaning fee." The security deposit may be a combination, for example, of the last month's rent plus a specific amount for security. No matter what these payments or fees are called, the law considers them all, as well as any other deposit or charge, to be part of the security deposit. The one exception to this rule is stated in the next paragraph.

The law allows the landlord to require a tenant to pay an application screening fee, in addition to the security deposit. The application screening fee is not part of the security deposit. However, any other fee charged by the landlord at the beginning of the tenancy to cover the landlord's cost of processing a new tenant is part of the security deposit.

California Tenants - California Department of Consumer Affairs
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2009, 10:55 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,077 posts, read 28,482,317 times
Reputation: 18189
Ultrarunner
Theres a difference between a holding deposit and security deposit the OP is not clear on this?

Last edited by virgode; 07-19-2009 at 10:55 PM.. Reason: spacer
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-20-2009, 12:15 AM
 
Location: Bike to Surf!
3,080 posts, read 11,041,698 times
Reputation: 3022
To the OP:

Look up your state's renter's laws and READ THEM. If you're managing rental properties, you ought to know them already, anyway.

If NY is like CA, you might be responsible for triple the deposit in damages if you are in the wrong. It doesn't matter what you think is "fair" or what is in some emails you might have, the law probably covers your case and you need to know which side of it you're on to save yourself a ton of money and headaches.

Google "New York Landlord Tenant Law" or something similiar. Read through the summaries posted by renter's rights organizations or wade through the official legal documents (the safer option). The offical documents will be at the .gov or .ny URLs.

Skip the lawyer for now unless you can find one that offers free consultations.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-20-2009, 12:20 AM
 
8 posts, read 54,113 times
Reputation: 11
To me, a deposit both serves to hold the item/service requested by the purchaser/renter and serves as a fund to deduct damages at the end of the rental period. It is common here to expect renters to have a 2-month deposit in place by the move-in date. Although I don't call it a "holding" deposit per se, it is widely understood what the purpose of the deposit is.

I researched the emails and found this piece of wording she wrote:

"I am hoping ...that if you find a tenant to move in by July 15th that I could expect a refund of my full deposit"


Well, I still haven't found anyone and it is past July 15th now so she should not be expecting a refund of her full deposit.

BTW: all your input and feedback have been wonderful and I thank you all for being so generous with your insight.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-20-2009, 12:29 AM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,077 posts, read 28,482,317 times
Reputation: 18189
Have you tried Graigslist?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-20-2009, 08:06 AM
 
8 posts, read 54,113 times
Reputation: 11
Yes, that's where I usually put the ad and keep reposting to get as much exposure as possible .

In a month to month situation where there are no written leases, our state's laws/guidelines say that a minimum 30 day's notice is needed to inform the other party of vacating the premises. In my case, she gave me only 17 days notice (June 28)about changing her mind. Although the ad stated a July 1 move-in date, we had agreed both verbally and by email that she would pay from July 15th onward despite the fact that she couldnt move in til Aug 15th. Additionally, the deposit money was not even a full month's rent - it was just a little over a half-month's.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-20-2009, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Bike to Surf!
3,080 posts, read 11,041,698 times
Reputation: 3022
Sorry, I see you do know your state's laws and are in a gray area. My apologies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Real Estate > Renting

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top