Landlord is renting rooms in condo, some tenants not under contract (apartment, lease agreement)

[cjinca]

My daughter signed a 6 month rental lease 5 months ago. At that time, two other individuals rented out the 2 other rooms in house, each on separate leases (or at least one of them).

One tenant left, landlord has since put in a new tenant without having them sign lease and is now alleging that my daughter has damaged apartment common areas.

There is so much more to this story but right now I am simply trying to find out what the California Civil Code is regarding leasing rooms with separate leases. Also, my daughter's lease doesn't mention that she is leasing a room specifically. Doesn't address the utility 3 way split that was originally agreed on (orally).

Again, this situation is so messy and has so many bad aspects to it. I have found civil codes pertaining to many issues that pertain to our situation but can't find information about multiple tenants with separate leases and how responsibility is divided. Or if it is legal to have some parties under contract and others not. Seems like it would be illegal as party A is under contract with responsibilities and party B has not legal obligation.

[Babytarheelz]

If a landlord chooses not to have a written contract with their tenants, that's their choice. It's not the smartest move, but it's not illegal. A verbal contract is just as binding as a written one in most cases, so even though there's nothing written, their oral agreement is in fact a lease. So all of the parties have a legal obligation.

As far as damages, that should be addressed in the lease. Anything that's not addressed in a lease (written or verbal) defaults to state law. Damages are almost always the responsibility of the tenant. Does she have a move in inspection from when she moved in to protect her from existing damages? If not, any damages done during her tenancy are fair game. When/if it goes to court, the landlord will have to document the damages and your daugher will have to show her proof as to why they're not hers. The one with the most compelling evidence and argument will win.

[cjinca]

Thanks for replying. Bad situation to begin with, rapidly going south.
Daughter and room mate signed a lease without reading it. Landlord leased out 2 other rooms as well, one with same lease wording. Unsure about 3rd room arrangement, however he has moved out. The current occupant is not under lease and is leaving next week.

Daughter/roomate signed that place was in good condition although there were plumbing issues and old, filthy, stained carpet throughout house. So tenant B is mostly gone, will not recover her security, tenant C is leaving this week and never paid security, leaving daughter, tenant A to do all cleaning and be responsible for whatever 'damages' are claimed.

This LL owns several similar condos in area and rents to low income tenants and takes advantage of them by not maintaining properties, coming in without notice, etc. She has approached tenants B & C to ask them to sign a statement saying that my daughter/roomate has caused them mental duress, thus they are moving. Both refused. This is evidence that LL is trying to pin something on daughter/roommate.

So I am trying to find out where she might be vulnerable in the event this goes to court. Neighbors say she always keeps deposits. She originally showed them a unit with hardwood floors, was professional, etc. Then says that condo is no longer available, shows them shabby one, saying that it will be ready for lease in a few days. Daughter signs lease, then shows and moves in.

Daughter is learning hard lesson. We want to be prepared for counter issues if LL indeed trys to pin damages on daughter. Seems having only certain parties under contract is inviting problems. Tenant C arrived while daughter was out of town. Comes home, he's there. He doesn't clean up after himself, brought no furniture, etc and is using all of daughter's stuff.

I could write all day and not cover all the issues. But will lastly say, LL had tried to set it up that she'd have access to apt. for repairs and showing prospective tenants Thurs and Friday nights, all day Saturday and Sunday. We refused after having sent her reply requesting that she do non-emergency business during normal business hours. she called cops and they sent her away. It's a mess.

Where can i find code on different rental agreements?

[Babytarheelz]

It is a mess. What it boils down to though is your daughter signing the lease without reading it and she signed off saying it was in good repair when she moved in. That puts any damages on her if the landlord wants to pin them on her. What kind of damages are we talking about here? What she needs to do is take photos (video if possible) of everything and get statements from the other tenants if possible as to the origination of the damages. Like you said, it's a hard lesson learned, but she'll never make the same mistakes again.

Does sound like a shady lanlord, but all of the other stuff is irrelavant when it comes to damages. A judge will want the story in black and white, not the other grey area in the background.

What do you mean by code on rental agreements? There's no standard rental agreement, a landlord can create whatever terms they'd like so long as they're legal. Do you mean the landlord/tenant laws for your state? If so, just google whatever state you're in plus landlord tenant law and you should come up with some resources. These statutes are somewhat vague and leave a lot to interpretation. And they're largely landlord friendly as well.

[virgode]

You haven't mentioned the state of residence.
Your daughter is entitled to a walk thru at the end
of her lease period with the landlord, damages can
be discussed at that time, so she'll have an idea
of how much of the security deposit will be refunded.
The only reason the LL would have to take your daughter
to court would be if the damages exceed the SD.
If the LL should in fact charge her for damages,
depending on how much they amount to, she can go
to small claims court to contest, you have to weigh out
if the cost of filing verses what you may recoup is
worth your time and trouble.
I compare renting rooms from an LL who doesn't live
there to a Frat/Sorority house type of situation
except they have a lease.
Unless the LL has some kind of proof as to how the
damage in common area occured, I don't see how your
daughter can be held responsible, but again you have to
decide if court is something you really want to do or
just wash your hands of it and be done with it, should
it come to this.

[virgode]

Another thing you do need to do is have your
daughter read the lease agreement to see what it
says about the common area. The lease may be
written differently bc there are so many using the
common area. The court will stand behind what that
agreement entails.

[cjinca]

Thanks for your reply.

Originally Posted by Babytarheelz

It is a mess. What it boils down to though is your daughter signing the lease without reading it and she signed off saying it was in good repair when she moved in. That puts any damages on her if the landlord wants to pin them on her. What kind of damages are we talking about here?

The carpet needed to replaced do to very large stains, however, carpet was also filthy and daughter rented steam cleaner.

Shortly after moving in she notified LL that heater didn't work. A heat service guy came out, left paperwork with diagnosis on refrigerator and LL picked it up. Nothing else was done. Daughter didn't follow up. Now she notes AC doesn't work and mentions it to LL with note that not only does heat not work, also AC... LL replies with 'no written report of heat'.

Dryer was without duct ventilation until a week ago. Also, no lint screen. One was ordered/delivered last week and it's wrong size.

Leak in toilet tank, wet carpet, repeated trips to look at it, fix it, still leaks.

Front door bottom lock is non-operable. Daughter and second house mate showed up one evening at same time and a super glue type goo was oozing out of lock. 3rd house mate was inside. LL blames daughter. Daughter is only house mate really left. One house mate will return to India on Wednesday. Another has a few things there but can't pay rent and is walking away. Living with relative.

LL uses guys in condo property to do work as side jobs and seldom is anything really fixed.

She has made comments in emails that suggest vandalism/property damage. [/quote]

Originally Posted by Babytarheelz

What do you mean by code on rental agreements? There's no standard rental agreement, a landlord can create whatever terms they'd like so long as they're legal. Do you mean the landlord/tenant laws for your state? If so, just google whatever state you're in plus landlord tenant law and you should come up with some resources. These statutes are somewhat vague and leave a lot to interpretation. And they're largely landlord friendly as well.

What I am trying to discern is the legality of contracts. Originally, 3 rooms were rented to 4 housemates at same time. 3 separate contracts all three are written as if each person was renting entire house. No mention of common areas, splitting utilities, etc.
Regardless of what is/isn't in the contract, aren't landlords held to accurately reflecting rental description? My husband and I signed multiple contracts without reading them when we were young. Yes, stupid but doesn't give free rein to LL to be a crook does it?

Also, LL has contacted both house mates asking them to sign papers saying that daughter is causing them mental duress. Both have declined. Is this slander? She actually showed up with a paper work with her own wording on first try.

[cjinca]

Thanks for your reply, virgode. She is in California in a UC town.

I agree, I don't see how she can blame daughter. Our concern was that she'd get house mates to sign papers against daughter as a 'trade' for not going after them. One has walked away from rent. One moved out 6 weeks ago, no walk through to assess state of condo at that time. And another will leave this week.

Yes, we've requested walk through two weeks prior to vacating.
LL has replied to issues saying all house mates need to be present because it's obvious [daughter] is trying to build case. First of all, her contract doesn't include them, secondly, we know that they won't be there for walk through.

Yes, I guess the cost of filing is next question.

Lastly, there is another condo owner in property that has professional relationship with LL but has said he will testify on daughter's behalf about carpet. As well as workers that she uses. One is a neighborhood crack head. Amazing.

As for washing our hands of this... problem is, that is why there are so many slumlords. They COUNT on 'washing hands'.

Originally Posted by virgode

You haven't mentioned the state of residence.
Your daughter is entitled to a walk thru at the end
of her lease period with the landlord, damages can
be discussed at that time, so she'll have an idea
of how much of the security deposit will be refunded.
The only reason the LL would have to take your daughter
to court would be if the damages exceed the SD.
If the LL should in fact charge her for damages,
depending on how much they amount to, she can go
to small claims court to contest, you have to weigh out
if the cost of filing verses what you may recoup is
worth your time and trouble.
I compare renting rooms from an LL who doesn't live
there to a Frat/Sorority house type of situation
except they have a lease.
Unless the LL has some kind of proof as to how the
damage in common area occured, I don't see how your
daughter can be held responsible, but again you have to
decide if court is something you really want to do or
just wash your hands of it and be done with it, should
it come to this.

[cjinca]

Originally Posted by virgode

Another thing you do need to do is have your
daughter read the lease agreement to see what it
says about the common area. The lease may be
written differently bc there are so many using the
common area. The court will stand behind what that
agreement entails.

This is complicated.
Daughter is guilty of not reading contract.
And in my opinion, LL is guilty of writing contract that did NOT accurately describe rental set up.
So does judge hold LL accountable to accurately represent what is being rented? A room vs entire condo?
FYI, originally daughter did everything by phone or in person. Now everything is in email. No certified mail, no mail.
We do have a ridiculous paper trail via email.

[Magnolia Bloom]

I'd contact the property management company for the condo association. I have never seen condo docs that permit leasing out rooms in a single unit.