Landlord's Expense, or Mine??? (lease agreement, tenant, eviction, renew)
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my family and i have been renting a 2 bedroom, 1 bath home for about 3 months. here's the situation:
the toilet backed up the other day. tried plunging, didn't work. bought a 6.5 closet auger, didn't work. finally had a plumber come out. the first thing he did, was walk down to the basement and look at the plumbing in the ceiling beneath the bathroom. he said it didn't look right. too many 90 degree bends, and puddy was used to fix a leak at some point. he proceeded to use his auger machine in the toilet, had to take the toilet out. that still didn't get the clog. so he went outside and auged the house line which finally cleared the line. no septic tank here, city sewage line. he says, what he thinks happened, besides the poor plumbing, is the fall is too steep from the house to the main sewage line, causing the water to leave sewage behind. he says if the plumbing isn't fixed, it will happen again in time.
he wrote that on the $470 bill. so, i talked to the landlord, and he said, okay, give me the plumbers phone number, and i'll call him to get the information.
the landlord emails me saying he talked to the plumber, and the plumbers said he THOUGHT it was the fall, but wasn't 100% sure. the landlord says he called 2 other plumbers, and they assured him that too much fall isn't possible with the new schedule 40 pipe that's being used. he went on to say that it's still my responsibility.
i responded to the email saying that i'm certain it's faulty plumbing, and the only way i would feel good footing the bill, is if he got another reputable plumber out here to look at the plumbing and tell me it's good to go.
please give me some feedback, as i'm pretty new to renting, but my gut is telling me this shouldn't be my expense.
The first mistake you made was in calling in a plumber yourself after the basic plunging and auger didn't solve the problem. What you should have done is immediately call the LL and let him deal with it. I don't know what your lease agreement says but landlord/tenant state laws usually cover structural, water and electrical problems and require that the LL address such problems on an immediate basis.
If your LL declines to pay this bill, keep a record of everything (copies of emails, the bill, etc.) and if the problem recurs then immediately notify the LL in writing. And hone up on your state landlord/tenant laws (you can easily find them on a google). Good luck!
The first mistake you made was in calling in a plumber yourself after the basic plunging and auger didn't solve the problem. What you should have done is immediately call the LL and let him deal with it. I don't know what your lease agreement says but landlord/tenant state laws usually cover structural, water and electrical problems and require that the LL address such problems on an immediate basis.
If your LL declines to pay this bill, keep a record of everything (copies of emails, the bill, etc.) and if the problem recurs then immediately notify the LL in writing. And hone up on your state landlord/tenant laws (you can easily find them on a google). Good luck!
Thanks!
more info:
I called my LL immediately when I found the clogging problem, he said, "i'm sorry, but it's not my responsibility to fix clogged toilets." I explained to him, that i was at the hospital, my wife just gave birth to our second child, and needed this fixed before we came back to the house...my dad actually discovered the clogging. my LL still assumed no responsibility.
so i went home, leaving my wife and newborn at the hospital, to try and fix the problem, that's when we tried plunging and the closet auger. it still didn't work, that's when we called the Plumber. after paying the plumber, i called the LL, and explained what the Plumber found.
about two weeks ago, there was a bad leak in the plumbing beneath the bathroom, that's when the LL came out and used puddy to fix the problem, we explained at that time, the toilet had been backing up, and sewer gasses were coming up. he fixed the leak, and advised us to notify him if the sewage gasses kept up. the gasses kept up, and i notified him via email.
i have kept all emails, and of course the plumbing bill.
i'm still waiting to hear a response from LL about me saying i wouldn't feel right about footing the bill unless he had another Plumber come out and look at the plumbing...
I'm in Western Pennsylvania, and it looks like i'm able to deduct the bill from my next rent payment...if anyone can verify this, please let me know! thanks!
I'm in Western Pennsylvania, and it looks like i'm able to deduct the bill from my next rent payment...if anyone can verify this, please let me know! thanks!
Be careful about doing that. Here's a link to the applicable statutes in PA which will spell out for you under what circumstances you can deduct repairs from rent. This whole site is worth reading so you can get a better understanding of what your state laws are. Good luck!
I would agree with STT that you would be on thin ice to withhold any amount from your rent.
While I agree that the situation as presented by the OP makes the LL out to be quite the tool, there is another side to this story and I really don't think you want to have to tell it to a judge when you are facing eviction with a new baby.
In my experience the stress of having new additon to family or job situation change or anything else makes it very important to not just "stick by my guns" but to cool down and try to enlist a more neutral third party before things really get worse.
If the landlord refused to do anything then I think a judge would have a fairly easy task of saying the guy was a bum and reasonable emergancy repairs to maintain habitabilty were probably within the right of the tenant to subcontract for. In this situation the landlord already demonstrated a willingness to make repairs when a leak was found and the LL's attorney would almost certainly argue that the tenant failed to properly notify the landlord about the seriousness of the issue.
I have had tenants that I swear thought a kitchen garbage disposer was like some magic portal to another dimension and everything in a kitchen would just magically be transported out of sight. So I completely understand the LL's response to a clog -- if however the tenant had said in a really nice way that they had tried a plunger and other hardware store remedies and things were not working I probably would have come over myself. If the tenant said "come over or I'll call a plumbr" you can bet that if I was told in a 'throw down' way that I would do only the LEGAL minimum. I'm a businessman not a doormat.
Generally if the plumber will talk to the landlord on your behalf, but in a detached way to keep emotions out of it, that is best.
If the plumber won't do this then the smartest thing to do is to pay the bill and let it go -- odds are that there are lots of other places to rent and you will probably not want to renew anyway. The LL will probably be losing some money on the whole thing anyway if that makes you feel any better...
the way i see it, i notified LL immediately about the clogging. he denied responsibility. I had repairs done, and kept receipt. on said receipt, it was noted that faulty plumbing, from too steep of a fall of the sewage line, caused the clog. also, not fixing the problem would have been very unsanitary.
I notified LL about the repair done, which he again denied responsibility. I'm planning on sending the rent, minus the bill. of course, i'll attach a copy of the plumbing bill.
I would agree with STT that you would be on thin ice to withhold any amount from your rent.
While I agree that the situation as presented by the OP makes the LL out to be quite the tool, there is another side to this story and I really don't think you want to have to tell it to a judge when you are facing eviction with a new baby.
In my experience the stress of having new additon to family or job situation change or anything else makes it very important to not just "stick by my guns" but to cool down and try to enlist a more neutral third party before things really get worse.
If the landlord refused to do anything then I think a judge would have a fairly easy task of saying the guy was a bum and reasonable emergancy repairs to maintain habitabilty were probably within the right of the tenant to subcontract for. In this situation the landlord already demonstrated a willingness to make repairs when a leak was found and the LL's attorney would almost certainly argue that the tenant failed to properly notify the landlord about the seriousness of the issue.
I have had tenants that I swear thought a kitchen garbage disposer was like some magic portal to another dimension and everything in a kitchen would just magically be transported out of sight. So I completely understand the LL's response to a clog -- if however the tenant had said in a really nice way that they had tried a plunger and other hardware store remedies and things were not working I probably would have come over myself. If the tenant said "come over or I'll call a plumbr" you can bet that if I was told in a 'throw down' way that I would do only the LEGAL minimum. I'm a businessman not a doormat.
Generally if the plumber will talk to the landlord on your behalf, but in a detached way to keep emotions out of it, that is best.
If the plumber won't do this then the smartest thing to do is to pay the bill and let it go -- odds are that there are lots of other places to rent and you will probably not want to renew anyway. The LL will probably be losing some money on the whole thing anyway if that makes you feel any better...
i haven't been "throw down" with the LL at the very least. we've been in this house for 3 months, and he's been out here twice to fix leaks in the bathroom. it's obvious the plumbing was patched together in the first place, and band aid's are failing...there are only two adults in this house, and i'm away at work for most of the time. the only thing flushed down the toilet is sewage and toilet paper (biodegradeable).
i've made a call to the Urban Renting Association in PA, so i'll plead my case to them when they call back...
the way i see it, i notified LL immediately about the clogging. he denied responsibility. I had repairs done, and kept receipt. on said receipt, it was noted that faulty plumbing, from too steep of a fall of the sewage line, caused the clog. also, not fixing the problem would have been very unsanitary.
I notified LL about the repair done, which he again denied responsibility. I'm planning on sending the rent, minus the bill. of course, i'll attach a copy of the plumbing bill.
I hope you did read the link thoroughly and properly and can only stress that your deducting the bill from the rent is NOT a good idea and the legalities aren't based on the way you see it but the specific laws. Take a deep breath, read the link again and don't rush into any action as it may just come back and bite you! Good luck!
I hope you did read the link thoroughly and properly and can only stress that your deducting the bill from the rent is NOT a good idea and the legalities aren't based on the way you see it but the specific laws. Take a deep breath, read the link again and don't rush into any action as it may just come back and bite you! Good luck!
what would you recommend? i don't want to break any laws, or get my family into something worse than we're already into...
i have until april 1st before i pay rent, so i have time to think things over.
what would you recommend? i don't want to break any laws, or get my family into something worse than we're already into...
i have until april 1st before i pay rent, so i have time to think things over.
You could always pay the rent on time and take him to small claims for the bill. I'm sure he wouldn't be happy with that because he would prefer you to foot the bill for his repairs. This seems like an emergency and you had notified him about the problem. The only reasonable thing to do would to call a plumber if the landlord wasn't taking action.
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