News, York Man Furious Over Dead Mother's Rent. (credit, house, liable)
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Even if the lease doesn't terminate upon someone's death, the landlord still has to get the rent from the estate. If the estate is broke, then the landlord has no choice but to write it off, just like the credit card bank and the magazine publisher.
Yep. I actually threw that clause into Google and all I found was a bunch of sample leases and the like that had it included. I found NOTHING establishing or supporting it's legality.
If you had researched a little more thoroughly other than a cursory glance you would have found only a few "sample leases" as the majority of references are from executed lease agreements. Even at that your conclusions are pretty funny. Even though it's a standard clause written into thousands upon thousands of leases every day throughout the country, you are convinced it's illegal because you can't find anything to disprove that.
Since State landlord/tenant laws supersede where rental agreements are concerned, then how about you providing examples of how this clause would NOT be legally viable and in what states. Note that the question in debate is basically whether or not a lease agreement immediately becomes null and void upon the death of Tenant or Landlord with no further obligation due from either party. Thanks.
PS: Maybe the other posters who think it's all a bunch of phooey would help out with the research..
lol.. its ok. I mean, why bring facts into the matter
'Tis you who seems to have an issue with facts being raised and the "facts" which you presented in rebuttal had absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand.
STT- I don't see why you seem to think that if something is in a clause that it is legal. I don't care if every damn landlord in this country had the exact same wording. If it isn't backed by the tenant/landlord rights of the State, then it doesn't mean squat. All you keep bringing to the table is an opinion. No facts, nothing. Therefore your point is moot IMHO.
I would like to know how on earth my "fact" of the EXACT part of PA Tenant Law that I copied and linked to has "nothing to do with the issue at hand"? It has everything to do with the issue at hand. You for some reason just choose to ignore facts. Whatever. Have fun with it
There's no critical thinking here, it doesn't take an attorney, a phone call to a reputable property manager is more than willing to answer questions about a PA lease. Agruing makes more sense though.
Theres no problem with the link you provided, your interpretation the lease ends is wrong.
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Originally Posted by NEOhioBound
STT- I don't see why you seem to think that if something is in a clause that it is legal. I don't care if every damn landlord in this country had the exact same wording. If it isn't backed by the tenant/landlord rights of the State, then it doesn't mean squat. All you keep bringing to the table is an opinion. No facts, nothing. Therefore your point is moot IMHO.
I would like to know how on earth my "fact" of the EXACT part of PA Tenant Law that I copied and linked to has "nothing to do with the issue at hand"? It has everything to do with the issue at hand. You for some reason just choose to ignore facts. Whatever. Have fun with it
STT- I don't see why you seem to think that if something is in a clause that it is legal. I don't care if every damn landlord in this country had the exact same wording. If it isn't backed by the tenant/landlord rights of the State, then it doesn't mean squat. All you keep bringing to the table is an opinion. No facts, nothing. Therefore your point is moot IMHO.
I would like to know how on earth my "fact" of the EXACT part of PA Tenant Law that I copied and linked to has "nothing to do with the issue at hand"? It has everything to do with the issue at hand. You for some reason just choose to ignore facts. Whatever. Have fun with it
Wrong. Unless it is CONTRADICTED by the State landlord/tenant laws, any such common clause is legal. And this is a common clause. Common as in 'legally" common. Precisely why I replied to Bosco55David as I did earlier.
A lease agreement does not terminate and become null and void upon the death of either LL or Tenant. Who can collect rent is totally irrelevant which is why the "fact" which you quoted is equally irrelevant. I'm sorry you can't see the woods for the trees but if you follow a trail of breadcrumbs it sometimes leads to a way out of a muddle.
Even if the lease doesn't terminate upon someone's death, the landlord still has to get the rent from the estate. If the estate is broke, then the landlord has no choice but to write it off, just like the credit card bank and the magazine publisher.
If you had researched a little more thoroughly other than a cursory glance you would have found only a few "sample leases" as the majority of references are from executed lease agreements. Even at that your conclusions are pretty funny. Even though it's a standard clause written into thousands upon thousands of leases every day throughout the country, you are convinced it's illegal because you can't find anything to disprove that.
Absolutely irrelevant. You know what else was in just about every contract used over the last decade or so? Forced arbitration in credit card agreements.
Care to remind me how that one worked out when it got challenged?
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Since State landlord/tenant laws supersede where rental agreements are concerned, then how about you providing examples of how this clause would NOT be legally viable and in what states. Note that the question in debate is basically whether or not a lease agreement immediately becomes null and void upon the death of Tenant or Landlord with no further obligation due from either party. Thanks.
It's very, very simple. You can NOT impute liability onto a third party without that third party's consent.
Will not happen. It violates even the most basic principles of common sense and contract law. Seriously, think about this for a second.
Plaintiff: Your honor, we are suing Mr. Somebody because he is indebted to our apartment complex for X amount of dollars.
Defendant: That is not true your honor. I never lived in this apartment complex nor did I sign any contract with the plaintiff.
Judge: Plantiff, do you have any proof that Mr. X is in fact indebted to you?
Plaintiff: Yes your honor. I have this contract here that his mother signed on XX/XX/XXXX and according to this clause here, we can hold him liable.
Tell me with a straight face that the judge wouldn't laugh the plaintiff out of the court room over that.
Just on whim, I ran this through Lawyers.com and the answers mirrored near exactly what myself and others said early on. The apartment complex can file a claim with the deceased's estate and they may or may not receive money based on state laws, but the heirs/decedents cannot be held personally liable.
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They can assert a claim against his estate. State law would govern whether he remains liable. I'm not in TX.
The estate would normally remain liable at least as long as the decedent's property remains in the rental.
Your mother-in-laws estate is responsible for the debt belonging to your mother-in-law including rent. Her children are not responsible for the rent.
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Thank-you, but what if there is no estate--She had no assets, she just worked a regular job and when she died her pay ended. How does that affect things.
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Then obviously the landlord is out of luck.
"The owner is now requesting that her grown children pay the remainder of the lease. Is this legal?"
Is it legal to ask? Sure.
"None of us were listed on her lease as co-signers."
Then obviously you can tell her to pound sand. If the estate has any money in it after taxes, funeral expenses, administrator-executor fees, legal fees, etc., then you can pay the landlord. And that's if the landlord files a claim in the probate case within the allowed amount of time.
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