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Old 12-25-2010, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Florida -
8,760 posts, read 10,834,959 times
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Today workers pay 6.2 percent of the earrings up to $68,400 and employers match it. Today, the average benefit for a retired worker is about $760. For each individual, what they pay in and receive depends on their work history, age, how long they worked, whether they have dependents and how long they live in retirement.

Given the above average, the average worker would pay-in $4241 and the employer pays in $4241 for a total of $8482 per year. At $760 per month, the average SS recipient would receive $9120. The average Social Security payout period for a male is 16 years and 19 years for a female. This means that at $8482 paid-in for 30-years, a worker would pay-in $254,460 ---and get back $145,920 (male) or $173,280 (female) ... a LOSS of $81K to $109K ... with NO interest paid and the government having use of the payee's money for 30+ years.

Of course, these 'averages' will vary according to the time worked, date retired, amount earned and amount paid-in and life span. However, they provide a baseline point-of-reference. Perhaps you can come up with more reliable numbers, but these do not appear to be far off.
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The bottom line is that the notion that Social Security is a 'freebie' or 'entitlement' for seniors, versus an earned retirement investment ... is not really correct.
http://www.network-democracy.org/soc.../benefits.html
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Old 12-25-2010, 08:52 PM
 
15,924 posts, read 17,413,476 times
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You don't pay into the system, you don't get anything out of it.... easy
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Old 12-25-2010, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,479,637 times
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I agree but too many times people like to lump it with other programs until all of them (SS, medicare, medicaid, welfare) start to be considered "entitlement".

One puts their own money into SS.
NOT an entitlement program.
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Old 12-25-2010, 11:41 PM
 
8,191 posts, read 11,905,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
Today workers pay 6.2 percent of the earrings up to $68,400 and employers match it.
Today?

Only if "today" is 1998.

And that's only the beginning of the problems with that rant. Here's another laughable error: It uses the amount paid in to SS for someone earning $68,400 for 30 years, but then attempts to relate it to the "average' benefit received by all SS recipients rather than employ some rudimentary logic and show what the benefit would be for someone who actually had that work history.

Moderator cut: snip


Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
Today, the average benefit for a retired worker is about $760.

Uh, no it's not. The average benefit as of November 2010 for retirees is $1174.70, and the average spousal benefit is $579.60. Somehow, the author failed to take into account spousal benefits which also skew the results. And we haven't even begun to address other possible beneficiaries based on just the one worker's work history.

Monthly Statistical Snapshot, November 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
Perhaps you can come up with more reliable numbers, but these do not appear to be far off.

Yeah, they're not far off if you failed third grade math.

Last edited by Keeper; 12-27-2010 at 05:40 AM..
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Old 12-25-2010, 11:54 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,678 posts, read 49,430,310 times
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hmmm

IF you pay into it and you later get something back; then yes it is earned.

But IF you have never paid anything into SS; and you get a SS payment then it is an entitlement.

The system currently is both.
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Old 12-26-2010, 06:21 AM
 
29,774 posts, read 34,856,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit View Post
You don't pay into the system, you don't get anything out of it.... easy
As others have noted spousal and dependent benefits were not factored in. The reality is that SS is now paying out more than it took in.

Perhaps a definition of the term entitlement program is in order.
Entitlement program: A Glossary of Political Economy Terms - Dr. Paul M. Johnson

Quote:
The kind of government program that provides individuals with personal financial benefits (or sometimes special government-provided goods or services) to which an indefinite (but usually rather large) number of potential beneficiaries have a legal right (enforceable in court, if necessary) whenever they meet eligibility conditions that are specified by the standing law that authorizes the program.
Does SS meet that definition?
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Old 12-26-2010, 07:16 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,471,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Does SS meet that definition?
Yes and no. That definition is broad enough that you could almost roll civil service into it. I think the intent of the term was to cover getting something for nothing.

At best, Social Security is a gigantic Ponzi scheme from which my wife and I are both enjoying benefits. She earned hers as I earned mine, but there's an ex lurking out there who will be tapping into my account in another two years.

Last edited by Curmudgeon; 12-26-2010 at 08:00 AM..
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Old 12-26-2010, 07:37 AM
 
29,774 posts, read 34,856,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Yes and no. That definition is broad enough that you could almost roll civil service into it. I thin the intent of the term was to cover getting something for nothing.

At best, Social Security is a gigantic Ponzi scheme from which my wife and I are both enjoying benefits. She earned hers as I earned mine, but there's an ex lurking out there who will be tapping into my account in another two years.
The intent of any term is the correct grammatical use of. We seem to have misplaced that in modern society.

Entitlement - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

a : the state or condition of being entitled : right b : a right to benefits specified especially by law or contract
2
: a government program providing benefits to members of a specified group; also : funds supporting or distributed by such a program
3
: belief that one is deserving of or entitled to certain privileges
See entitlement defined for English-language learners
Examples of ENTITLEMENT

SS does meet the standard of the first definition so it is an entitlement program. The term has multiple uses and we can't discount one to make a point that it isn't. It is specified by a law. That is what protects it the law making it an entitlement.
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Old 12-26-2010, 07:45 AM
 
29,774 posts, read 34,856,103 times
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Ask.com - What's Your Question?

Why is Social Security considered an entitlement program, but TANF is not? - Yahoo! Answers

Quote:
Social Security is an entitlement program because you work and pay Social Security taxes to earn your benefits. Temporary Assistance for Needy Families -TANF is welfare. You do not have to work and pay taxes to be eligible.
The above is a common citizen consensus definition from Yahoo Answers.
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Old 12-26-2010, 07:50 AM
 
20,976 posts, read 16,258,860 times
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So only those who have paid in should collect. And only collect the amount that they paid in, with interest.

Other than that, it's an entitlement.
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