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Old 05-31-2011, 05:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lenora View Post
This is all state specific. For example, according to my state's website, the inventory list will not include assets which pass outside of probate. There is a separate information report, but assets that are not subject to the Maryland inheritance tax are not reported. Thus, in Maryland, the information you are seeking would not be part of the public record. If you are that concerned, you should probably consult with an attorney in your state.
We had to list everything, from a $1000 life insurance policy to an IRA.
And major personal items like vehicles, any highly valued piece of personal property.
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Old 05-31-2011, 05:33 PM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
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Quote:
..... the inventory list will not include assets which pass outside of probate......Maryland
Actually it does. See item F

http://registers.maryland.gov/main/forms/RW1122.pdf

And this is the supporting schedule for it that is also required.

http://registers.maryland.gov/main/forms/RW1123.pdf

&

http://registers.maryland.gov/main/forms/RW1125.pdf


Maryland Register of Wills FAQ
Quote:
1.4. Are your records available to the general public ?

Wills and probate records of deceased individuals are public records and may be reviewed in the office in which they were filed.
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Old 05-31-2011, 05:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilVA View Post
so you missed you ride home.....!.....
I have sent an e-mail to my county probate office asking if the same information, as shown above in another comment, from Pa., is also public information in my county, specifically the inventory list.
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Old 05-31-2011, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howard555 View Post
We had to list everything, from a $1000 life insurance policy to an IRA.
And major personal items like vehicles, any highly valued piece of personal property.
I understand listing these in the inventory if the insurance policy and the IRA named the estate as the beneficiary or failed to name a beneficiary, but if there is a spouse or child named as the beneficiary, I don't get it. What business does the State have in gathering this information? I can't think of one legitimate reason the State would have to ask for this information if the property is not subject to its laws regarding distribution or tax.

Edit: Just realized perhaps your State does tax all of this stuff. Never mind.
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Old 05-31-2011, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilVA View Post
Sorry, you are incorrect. The directions regarding the inventory state:
"[T]the personal representative shall prepare and file an inventory of property owned solely by the decedent and the decedent’s interest in tenants in common property" and "(5) IRAs, annuities and life insurance proceeds payable to the estate or which have no named beneficiary." http://registers.maryland.gov/main/p...nBooklet07.pdf

Thus, property that is passed outside probate, i.e, property payable upon death, joint tenancy, tenancy by entireties, etc. is NOT listed as inventory. (Tenants in common is a form of ownership that does NOT pass to the surviving tenant as a matter of law.) However, it is reported on the Information Report IF it is subject to inheritance tax. "Any assets less than absolute or passing pursuant to a decedent’s trust to any persons or entities other than those exempt from inheritance tax must be reported."

Property transferred outside of probate to a spouse, lineal descendant, etc. is NOT subject to the inheritance tax and is therefore NOT reported. Got it?

Now, back to the OPs question. If his State mandates an inventory of all property owned by the decedent at the time of death, then he'll probably be able to see the list of inventory. But - it sure would be nice to know what State requires this type of disclosure...
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Old 05-31-2011, 08:30 PM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
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Quote:
so you missed you ride home.....!
Nope. Was sitting on the runway waiting in line.
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Old 05-31-2011, 09:21 PM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
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Quote:
I understand listing these in the inventory if the insurance policy and the IRA named the estate as the beneficiary or failed to name a beneficiary, but if there is a spouse or child named as the beneficiary, I don't get it. What business does the State have in gathering this information? I can't think of one legitimate reason the State would have to ask for this information if the property is not subject to its laws regarding distribution or tax.
Has nothing to do with taxes ( As of Jan 1, $5 million can be passed w/o having to pay federal inheritance tax) .
As to MD tax:
Quote:
Property passing to a child or other lineal descendant, spouse of a child or other lineal descendant, spouse, parent, grandparent, stepchild or stepparent, siblings or a corporation having only certain of these persons as stockholders is exempt from taxation.
Maryland Estate Taxes - Inheritance tax

It has to with the Probate fee. The more that is listed, the more that is charged. Look at page 21 of the manual link you supplied.

Quote:
Thus, property that is passed outside probate, i.e, property payable upon death, joint tenancy, tenancy by entireties, etc. is NOT listed as inventory. (Tenants in common is a form of ownership that does NOT pass to the surviving tenant as a matter of law.) However, it is reported on the Information Report IF it is subject to inheritance tax. "Any assets less than absolute or passing pursuant to a decedent’s trust to any persons or entities other than those exempt from inheritance tax must be reported."
Off topic. We are not discussing married spouse to spouse nor shared ownership of properties. Assets with both their names automatically defers to the other married spouse and not part of the probate process. but if they both die at the same time then it goes to the beneficiaries. If no beneficiaries are listed then it is sold and the proceeds are placed into the Estate Acct. But since you brought it up thats what this form is for

http://registers.maryland.gov/main/forms/RW1124.pdf
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Old 06-01-2011, 06:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lenora View Post
Sorry, you are incorrect. The directions regarding the inventory state:
"[T]the personal representative shall prepare and file an inventory of property owned solely by the decedent and the decedent’s interest in tenants in common property" and "(5) IRAs, annuities and life insurance proceeds payable to the estate or which have no named beneficiary." http://registers.maryland.gov/main/p...nBooklet07.pdf

Thus, property that is passed outside probate, i.e, property payable upon death, joint tenancy, tenancy by entireties, etc. is NOT listed as inventory. (Tenants in common is a form of ownership that does NOT pass to the surviving tenant as a matter of law.) However, it is reported on the Information Report IF it is subject to inheritance tax. "Any assets less than absolute or passing pursuant to a decedent’s trust to any persons or entities other than those exempt from inheritance tax must be reported."

Property transferred outside of probate to a spouse, lineal descendant, etc. is NOT subject to the inheritance tax and is therefore NOT reported. Got it?

Now, back to the OPs question. If his State mandates an inventory of all property owned by the decedent at the time of death, then he'll probably be able to see the list of inventory. But - it sure would be nice to know what State requires this type of disclosure...
-------------------------------------------------------------

look here:
http://www.judicial.state.sc.us/forms/pdf/350PC.pdf

That is the exact form me and my sibling used for my father's
estate. His will contained house, car, personal items. Nothing
more, and did not even mention the existence of any financial
accounts. He did have 7 financial accounts, two IRA's, 2
checking accounts, a brokerage account with stocks, two other
accounts with some mutual funds, and one life insurance policy
of $1,000. All of that had to be reported on the inventory
document. There are places on the form to include it all.

We had to get lawyers to settle my father's estate. The lawyer
who represented my sister is the same lawyer who is helping
my Mother with her will. So, he is no dummy, and he knows
100%, what does not have to be listed in a will. My father at
one time considered a living trust. I doubt my Mother goes that
route and I doubt the lawyer tries to convince her to go in
that direction.

My Mother will choose my sibling as her will executor. We all,
already know that my Mother will leave her house to my sister.
I'm sure I'll be involved in the dividing of personal property
in some way, since my sister does not want or need most of it.
Then my Mother's car is a 1985 Honda with over 250,00 miles,
so that is no issue. The issue surrounds financial assets and
book rights. With my sibling being the will executor and
possibly the only beneficiary on some or all of the rest,
only seeing the inventory list will I know what was there.

As far as what you do, or do not have to list in your will, or
what you want or do not want in your will, my father's will
shows you. He had a clause that would not have held up in
court. He called out the full name of an in law and stated in
his will that the person should not possess, inherit, be given,
etc, any item owned by my father. Now, this was totally
non-enforceable because my sibling received half of my father's
personal items. If they wanted to give any of these to their
spouse, no probate court or judge would rule it could not be
done,just because my father did not want it to happen. A far
reaching example would be my sibling ages 40 more years. Who
will go deep into the will records in my County, 40 years from
now and locate my father's will and say "ooops, we need to go
to Ohio, and make sure this 95 year old never gave their spouse
any of the items they inherited. It won't happen. My father's
lawyer put that clause in my father's will because my father
wanted it in the will. The lawyer knew it could not be enforced.

With my sibling and I having done the entire probate process
with all the forms and deadlines and over a period of 13
months of mistrust on both sides, I am positive my Mother's
estate will include an inventory list because my Father's
estate "taught" my sibling how it works in my County. Little
chance they try to leave items of the inventory list.
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Old 06-01-2011, 06:54 AM
 
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So you're wondering what will happen during probate of a will that hasn't been written yet for someone who is still alive?

The answer to the question in your first post is yes, documents filed with the court clerk in connection with probate of a will are public unless there's some reason for the court to seal the documents. If an account isn't listed in these public documents there's no way for you to know about it. I recommend again that you talk with a lawyer when the time comes that the estate is probated.
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Old 06-01-2011, 07:05 AM
 
14,450 posts, read 20,630,704 times
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Not wondering, I know the scenario that will play out. You are missing 95% of the facts.
So, you can be assured that I won't be the executor, or co-executor. If the inventory list is completed like it is supposed to, and I have access to it through the probate office, then fine.

The will has been written. People age 81 have will's if they realize the importance of having one, so their wishes are done.

I know the relationship of all the individuals and why my sibling is the will executor, and why I won't be shown the will or the inventory list. Because I won't be a co-executor and I will not have that right, like I did on my father's estate. People were lied to, so as to blame me for the need for lawyers for my father's estate. My sibling will make 100% sure that I am not a co-executor.

My sibling visits my Mother multiple times a year and phone calls once a week. And my contact with me Mother is zero. It is easy to figure out that my sibling will be my Mother's personal representative.

Someone in the world dies every minute or so, if not more often, so who knows, I could die tomorrow and the whole question goes up in flames.
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