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Social Security and Medicare are emerging once again as seemingly untouchable third rails of politics despite their looming insolvency, and economists say the reason is obvious.
Surveys show that a majority of Americans will rely solely or mostly on the programs for support in their retirement because they have not saved adequately
How do you save people from themselves? Does our entire nation have to go down the tubes making the attempt? The amount of generational resentment had been a mystery to me, but I'm beginning to understand it more. Can we (I am 67) really propose to line our retirement nest at the expense of the younger generations? The very thought embarrasses me. No, more than embarrasses me - it scares the hell out of me.
I have little doubt these programs will continue to be important, and receive significant public support.
I admire Paul Ryan's willingness to put forward a specific set of changes to the programs, even if I disagree with much of what he has proposed. Doing nothing isn't an option, those programs are not sustainable as currently structured.
There are other approaches, and the Democrats should get behind a specific set of proposals as a counter to Ryan's. Leaving the programs as they are is only an election ploy, and shouldn't be supported by anyone.
I have little doubt these programs will continue to be important, and receive significant public support.
I admire Paul Ryan's willingness to put forward a specific set of changes to the programs, even if I disagree with much of what he has proposed. Doing nothing isn't an option, those programs are not sustainable as currently structured.
There are other approaches, and the Democrats should get behind a specific set of proposals as a counter to Ryan's. Leaving the programs as they are is only an election ploy, and shouldn't be supported by anyone.
I agree and I should have specified in my post #2 above that I am not in favor of dismantling Social Security or Medicare. What scares me is the statement about most people depending solely or mostly on SS in retirement. I was too much in a hurry when I posted, so I gave a skewed version of my own views. Note to self: slow down a bit in the future.
Well, it would be nice if we had decent employment again in this country with people earning decent wages contributing to the system. A good part of this hoo haa right now is because of dwindling revenues due to unemployment and LOWER wages. Lowering the payroll tax for this year was totally stupid, had little effect on the economy, was unaffordable to the SS system and shouldn't have been done. I'll bet the ranch they'll keep that lower payroll tax in place next year, ad infinitum, and further weaken the system.
I saw a guy on TV today say US wages have to get in line with the rest of the world - in other words a 75% drop. So, that means even LESS money going for payroll taxes. All this unemployment has also caused another 1.2 million people to qualify for SSDI, a further drain on the system, because while their previous employers kept them on with their handicaps, they can't find jobs now. We're paying the piper now for unfunded wars, unfunded tax cuts and an easy money policy which created a phony sense of prosperity.
Great quote I read earlier this week:
Quote:
IMO the "normal" unemployment rate is at least 7%. The days of 4-5% UE were fueled by a stock bubble, a bond bubble and a housing bubble. All contributed to consumers spending more than they "normally" would.
In "normal" times consumers are more prudent - paying down debt and saving more. Unfortunately, the economy is structurally incapable of significant growth when consumers live within their means.
In the long-term it can only get worse. More and more resources will have to be taxed out of the economy to sustain entitlement programs and pay down the national debt.
Last edited by Ariadne22; 06-03-2011 at 10:01 PM..
Well, it would be nice if we had decent employment again in this country with people earning decent wages contributing to the system. A good part of this hoo haa right now is because of dwindling revenues due to unemployment and LOWER wages. Lowering the payroll tax for this year was totally stupid, had little effect on the economy, was unaffordable to the SS system and shouldn't have been done. I'll bet the ranch they'll keep that lower payroll tax in place next year, ad infinitum, and further weaken the system.
I saw a guy on TV today say US wages have to get in line with the rest of the world - in other words a 75% drop. So, that means even LESS money going for payroll taxes. All this unemployment has also caused another 1.2 million people to qualify for SSDI, a further drain on the system, because while their previous employers kept them on with their handicaps, they can't find jobs now. We're paying the piper now for unfunded wars, unfunded tax cuts and an easy money policy which created a phony sense of prosperity.
Great quote I read earlier this week:
We have a serious under education problem and folks with horrible work force skills if any. It is amazing the number of small to mid size CEO's that come on CNBC saying they can't find workers who will show up for work daily, test drug free and have usable or trainable skills. I know folks who work in staffing and they say it is horrible how poor much of the wanna be workforce is. Employers laid off in many cases weak employees and no one wants to hire them back. Competent employees were often hired eventually elsewheree. In some case industries especially construction were based on a bubble as you pointed out and will never come back. A number of those construction workers have minimal academic skills and are not the best students for retraining.
We need to change the rules of the game to provide relief to the shrinking dem0graphic that are being taxed to support SS and medicare.
To be fair we were sold a bill of goods by the government that said they were mandating that we pay into these programs but would enjoy a sustaining payout of the benefits we were buying. These aren't entitlements in many of our minds but a contract with a delayed payout. Now when the time comes for boomers to make claims we find only worthless IOU's.
Only after 40-50 years of "contributions" for some are we to understand it was always just a tax and yearly obligations were just covered under the general budget. As it is, the system in not sustainable even if unemployment figures were not so high unless of course you recognize it was never a program at all but a general obligation covered by whatever revenues the government took in. Then a rosy economy could mitigate the problem for a while longer even as the work force is shrinking with respect to the numbers of people making claims.
We need to take care of the people who planned their whole lives around this government guarrantee and are out of the workforce or very late in their working careers. It is plausible to consider they were victims of a Federal Government ponzi scheme and we are obligated to look after them in any settlement.
For the rest of us we need options and the ability to control our retirement investments outside the reach of the thieves in Washington and interests they represent. Fine if there is a requirement that some percentage of your income has to be put aside/invested to forefend destitution in old age. Control of those monies should never be entrusted to politicians or the bureaucracies they have created.
This all needs to be phased in. The generational resentment can go away when there isn't even distinction between what the government takes in income taxes and where it is spent. Afterall we do not get an itemized list on our pay stub for how much is spent on National Defense, State Department, Highways, Aviation and etc. Then they can give us a tax credit for a certain amount retirement saving/investment contributions and if you are not going to be responsible for yourself and do not have anything to report those extra taxes paid can purchase insurance for people that need the nanny-state to look after them, good luck with that.
We have a serious under education problem and folks with horrible work force skills if any. It is amazing the number of small to mid size CEO's that come on CNBC saying they can't find workers who will show up for work daily, test drug free and have usable or trainable skills. I know folks who work in staffing and they say it is horrible how poor much of the wanna be workforce is. Employers laid off in many cases weak employees and no one wants to hire them back. Competent employees were often hired eventually elsewheree. In some case industries especially construction were based on a bubble as you pointed out and will never come back. A number of those construction workers have minimal academic skills and are not the best students for retraining.
A hilarious and, in the end, alarming thread - commentary on the state of our 'literate' populace - the uneducated are everywhere:
I could have had a more cheerful day not reading your thread reference. You've "nailed" a huge problem quite succinctly. It raises a critical issue in my view - what, if any, role do/should governments play in educating folks about basic financial matters?
I probably ought to make that question a separate thread. Its depressing to think about the quality of high school "graduates" in this country.
My apology to the OP for digressing.
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