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Old 07-24-2011, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 19,014,482 times
Reputation: 15649

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ifa View Post
"Increase retirement age to reflect gains in life expectancy"

What gains in life expectancy? That is a very unfortunate myth. Life expectancy has barely increased for middle-aged Americans (the average has increased because of a decrease in infant mortality). And older Americans are probably sicker now than ever. And even if they were healthy, age discrimination is rampant, so how the heck are we supposed to find and keep jobs when we're old?

Increasing SS retirement age is a stupid idea and will create misery for millions. Not that you can live on SS anyway, but they took our money and we are counting on getting it back.
REP!

Most people I know in their 60s up to age 70 or so have either had to stop working due to a debilitating health condition (we are one of the most unhealthy nations on the planet despite our wealth and "wonderful" healthcare system) OR they were forced out of their jobs into early retirement or from layoffs. True of both the private and public sectors. Much cheaper for employers to dump the oldsters at 55 or 60 and bring in new hirees in their 20s at less salary and benefits.

So you raise the retirement age and what you will get is millions of people between the ages of 50 and retirement age living on savings (?) and/or on the street. Then these same people wind up applying to social service programs for subsidized housing, fuel assistance, food stamps, etc, costing the gov't even more money and pushing us even further into a socialist system.

We have to look at the WHOLE picture, not something we (and esp our legislators) are too good at.
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Old 07-24-2011, 10:52 AM
 
29,838 posts, read 34,929,245 times
Reputation: 11766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariadne22 View Post
Still doesn't deal with the issue of keeping people employed. I was forcibly retired at 67-1/2. I would have worked to 70-1/2 if they would have let me, possibly longer. Self-employed people can continue to work. Empoyees often have no choice in the matter.

Given the new normal of permanently higher unemployment and underemployment and the continued decline of decent paying jobs, it's a real Catch22. People need to work longer to make up for lower wages, SS FRA will be over 67 soon, but the jobs won't be there. So, then what?
Very real problems, very real. Also the environmental changes while they last are creating greater strains on folks energy budgets and government down sizing is eliminating their ability to help.
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Old 07-24-2011, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ > Raleigh, NC
15,109 posts, read 19,084,028 times
Reputation: 24240
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Very real problems, very real. Also the environmental changes while they last are creating greater strains on folks energy budgets and government down sizing is eliminating their ability to help.
"Government Downsizing"???!!!???? What country are YOU living in?!?
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Old 07-24-2011, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,775,806 times
Reputation: 32309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkgourmet View Post
"Government Downsizing"???!!!???? What country are YOU living in?!?
While I cannot speak for the poster to whom you directed this question, I would point out that the notion of "government" in its broad sense includes more than our federal government. It includes city, county, and state governments. At least here in California there has been, and will probably continue to be, considerable downsizing of government at the city, county, and state levels. And while I do not claim to keep up with the situation in all 50 states, I know that California is not alone in having rather severe budget-balancing problems which have led to substantial reductions in services.
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Old 07-24-2011, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
21,552 posts, read 44,124,869 times
Reputation: 15169
Absolutely true. Local governments are downsizing. City, county, state here in Wisconsin. Our unemployment rate has risen .5% over the last two months, partially due to this. Right now we're at 7.6% - and that includes new hires in the seasonal summer tourist industry - all of which ends in September. I expect we'll be over 8% again, very soon. There is no new job creation in this state.

On the federal level, what happens to all the returning military people, the suppliers of the military and their employees as the wars wind down?? For whom will they work? And on and on and on.

Interesting conundrum. The governments have propped up our economy by recirculating tax dollars as wages on the local level in myriad ways.
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Old 07-24-2011, 01:19 PM
mlb
 
Location: North Monterey County
3,199 posts, read 2,870,082 times
Reputation: 4902
I think we should have a national referendum on which proposal is put into effect.

I'm tired of people who never had to subsist on Social Security telling folks who have to - that they're going to have to cut benefits.

We have special elections locally - why not nationally?
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Old 07-24-2011, 04:30 PM
ifa
 
294 posts, read 370,184 times
Reputation: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
REP!

Most people I know in their 60s up to age 70 or so have either had to stop working due to a debilitating health condition (we are one of the most unhealthy nations on the planet despite our wealth and "wonderful" healthcare system) OR they were forced out of their jobs into early retirement or from layoffs. True of both the private and public sectors. Much cheaper for employers to dump the oldsters at 55 or 60 and bring in new hirees in their 20s at less salary and benefits.

So you raise the retirement age and what you will get is millions of people between the ages of 50 and retirement age living on savings (?) and/or on the street. Then these same people wind up applying to social service programs for subsidized housing, fuel assistance, food stamps, etc, costing the gov't even more money and pushing us even further into a socialist system.

We have to look at the WHOLE picture, not something we (and esp our legislators) are too good at.
The drug companies have convinced everyone we are living "longer healthier lives" thanks to their poison drugs. Of course the legislators believe it. And what do they care anyway, they won't ever need SS.
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Old 07-24-2011, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,775,806 times
Reputation: 32309
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifa View Post
The drug companies have convinced everyone we are living "longer healthier lives" thanks to their poison drugs. Of course the legislators believe it. And what do they care anyway, they won't ever need SS.
It's not a question of belief. There are reliable statistics on when people die. And the professional actuaries who prepare the Social Security estimates and the life insurance company projections (and various other things) rely on those statistics, not on anyone's propoganda.
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Old 07-24-2011, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,775,806 times
Reputation: 32309
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlb View Post
I think we should have a national referendum on which proposal is put into effect.
I'm tired of people who never had to subsist on Social Security telling folks who have to - that they're going to have to cut benefits.
We have special elections locally - why not nationally?
Be careful what you wish for, because you might get it! And if you get it, you won't be at all happy with the results. Do actually think that people who "subsist on Social Security" are in the majority in this country? No way. The young people who resent paying for us older people would not vote against their own narrowly defined best interests and those who "subsist on Social Security" would be royally screwed. Don't be so naive.
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Old 07-24-2011, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,746 posts, read 4,228,138 times
Reputation: 6866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
Be careful what you wish for, because you might get it! And if you get it, you won't be at all happy with the results. Do actually think that people who "subsist on Social Security" are in the majority in this country? No way. The young people who resent paying for us older people would not vote against their own narrowly defined best interests and those who "subsist on Social Security" would be royally screwed. Don't be so naive.
It would depend on the terms of the proposal. Boomers and seniors would be much more likely to vote and there are a heckuva lot more of them than in the younger generations. I also know a lot of children and grandchildren who would, in fact, vote to protect Grandma's meager social security check.
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