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Old 04-10-2013, 04:04 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 16,475,201 times
Reputation: 8776

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkansas Mac View Post
When idiots like Joy Behar laughs approvingly at the mention of 13 year old girls having sex, what do you expect ?
Sex is a natural desire for all animals.
I do not think that, in of itself, indicates a child is having problems or is in a dysfunctional family.
It can mean that the girl feels unloved by her dad and is looking for a substitute, however.
It can mean the parents do not have an open enough relationship to discuss these matters with their children and the child is left to make his own decisions in this matter.

I would prefer that a person not have sex until the part of their brains that can give them good judgment is fully developed, somewhere in their twenties, but most kids would never wait that long and I don't think, in and of itself, that it indicates there is something wrong with the child.
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:43 AM
 
239 posts, read 475,096 times
Reputation: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
Sex is a natural desire for all animals.
I do not think that, in of itself, indicates a child is having problems or is in a dysfunctional family.
It can mean that the girl feels unloved by her dad and is looking for a substitute, however.
It can mean the parents do not have an open enough relationship to discuss these matters with their children and the child is left to make his own decisions in this matter.

I would prefer that a person not have sex until the part of their brains that can give them good judgment is fully developed, somewhere in their twenties, but most kids would never wait that long and I don't think, in and of itself, that it indicates there is something wrong with the child.
13 year olds having sex is not normal in my world.

Maybe in yours !
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:52 AM
 
239 posts, read 475,096 times
Reputation: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
Sex is a natural desire for all animals.
I do not think that, in of itself, indicates a child is having problems or is in a dysfunctional family.
It can mean that the girl feels unloved by her dad and is looking for a substitute, however.
It can mean the parents do not have an open enough relationship to discuss these matters with their children and the child is left to make his own decisions in this matter.

I would prefer that a person not have sex until the part of their brains that can give them good judgment is fully developed, somewhere in their twenties, but most kids would never wait that long and I don't think, in and of itself, that it indicates there is something wrong with the child.

---" sex is a natural desire for all animals "--

Human behavior is expected to be above animal behavior.

It may be a .....natural desire...... for animals to lick their private parts in public, have sex with their parents or siblings,

Humans are supposed to know right from wrong and rise to a level higher than animals.

I guess if some people don't hold expectations of them doing so, they might not.
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:01 AM
 
Location: State of Superior
8,628 posts, read 13,888,154 times
Reputation: 2770
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Look. I don't care who is married and who isn't. I do care who is having kids they can't raise. I do care how many of them are left by the wayside. And I care how many will end up with criminal records. These are social issues and affect us all.

What's your warm fuzzy solution?

Throw more money? Education is free in this country and that hasn't helped.

I don't give a rat's patootie as to whether people are married, living together, adoptive parents, gay, straight, transsexual, religious, atheists, overweight, have a third grade education, a doctorate, are undocumented citizens, WHATEVER. I only care that every child born in this country has SOMEONE that will ante up to make sure their needs are met in some way other than TAX DOLLARS.

I have actually had someone tell me that they needed to find out about medicaid to make sure they are qualified as they wanted to have a baby but didn't have the money to pay for the hospital bill. I guess that is "planned parenthood?" The plan is - Uncle Sam raises these kids. And last time I looked, Uncle Sam was You and Me.

About 25% of the nation's children are living in poverty. Okay. I get that. But here's the thing. Where did they come from? They didn't just pop up under cabbage leaves. Someone had to birth them. So the problem to address is not "children living in poverty," it is the two people who decided to birth a child into a life of poverty.

So you tell me the solution. All the birth control pills and condoms and sex ed classes in the universe can't prevent pregnancy if THEY AREN'T USED.
What do you think I have been trying to say? I think we may be closer in ideals than you think. You are treading on political grounds in some of your statements. Thats Ok too, everyone has options. Its the basic things that fly in the face of our religions that bothers me the most. Religious fanatics cry out for abortions no matter what, they want their following to reproduce as fast as they can without anyway to pay for it, they complain about mixed marriages, bigots most of them., Now we have some things to look at that may make a difference.
"Warm and Fuzzy solutions "? no, there is no such thing. All of us need to work together in bipartisan ways, and forget many of the stupid moral dogma they spew all the while being hypocrite's behind closed doors. One of the good things that just got passed was the morning after pill that any young girl can get over the counter anytime. Thank you Supreme Court ! You still speak of answers for child poverty in spite of contraceptives that are not working, well, they ARE working. Take a look around, look back to the days of back ally abortions, Catholic hidden homes for unwed mothers , and a level of ignorance most of us today would see as unbelievable. We have Planed Parenthood to thank for all they have done, if nothing more than education which was and is at the base of the poverty you speak of.
Taxes, ya I do not want to pay for other people's stupidity any more than you, but until we find the answers, make some hard choices, cut the religious crap, we all will continue to pay, its the American Way.
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:30 AM
 
Location: State of Superior
8,628 posts, read 13,888,154 times
Reputation: 2770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkansas Mac View Post
---" sex is a natural desire for all animals "--

Human behavior is expected to be above animal behavior.

It may be a .....natural desire...... for animals to lick their private parts in public, have sex with their parents or siblings,

Humans are supposed to know right from wrong and rise to a level higher than animals.

I guess if some people don't hold expectations of them doing so, they might not.
The animal world, when left alone and not humans upsetting the balance of nature, will adjust the number of offspring in relationship to the food supply. Sometimes it seems our furry friends may be smarter than us humans..........
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:42 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,154,265 times
Reputation: 22373
Quote:
Originally Posted by darstar View Post
What do you think I have been trying to say? I think we may be closer in ideals than you think. You are treading on political grounds in some of your statements. Thats Ok too, everyone has options. Its the basic things that fly in the face of our religions that bothers me the most. Religious fanatics cry out for abortions no matter what, they want their following to reproduce as fast as they can without anyway to pay for it, they complain about mixed marriages, bigots most of them., Now we have some things to look at that may make a difference.
"Warm and Fuzzy solutions "? no, there is no such thing. All of us need to work together in bipartisan ways, and forget many of the stupid moral dogma they spew all the while being hypocrite's behind closed doors. One of the good things that just got passed was the morning after pill that any young girl can get over the counter anytime. Thank you Supreme Court ! You still speak of answers for child poverty in spite of contraceptives that are not working, well, they ARE working. Take a look around, look back to the days of back ally abortions, Catholic hidden homes for unwed mothers , and a level of ignorance most of us today would see as unbelievable. We have Planed Parenthood to thank for all they have done, if nothing more than education which was and is at the base of the poverty you speak of.
Taxes, ya I do not want to pay for other people's stupidity any more than you, but until we find the answers, make some hard choices, cut the religious crap, we all will continue to pay, its the American Way.
The things you mention are definitely helpful in curbing unwanted pregnancies (morning after pill, legal abortion, adoption).

As far as being politically correct or couching things under a "religion" umbrella - I am not concerned with either of those things. I am interested in solutions. Religion is a personal matter and if someone doesn't feel abortion is morally correct, then they shouldn't get an abortion. I don't believe you can legislate morality but you can create legislation that will allow people to make whatever they think is the best choice for their circumstances.

All that aside . . . my point is that bringing children into poverty is not always a matter of an "accident." People consciously decide to have children as a matter of LIFESTYLE. Having a child (children) means access to benefits. We write out checks to people who are using their children as a way to support themselves. Our school systems spend billions of dollars trying to babysit children at age 4 in hopes of getting them out of crappy home situations and exposing them to "a different world." We are doing all this compensation for people who are most typically drug addicts, in and out of jail, or living with grandparents . . . b/c those kids were never brought into this world through a desire to nurture a family - they are simply meal tickets.

The last time I looked, about 12% of the nation's children are being raised by GRANDPARENTS b/c the parents either abandoned the children, are drug addicts incapable of taking care of themselves much less children, or the parent w/ custody of the children is in prison. This is a serious issue that affects all of society. And the attitude is generational and breeds more poverty.

The OP asked about how we felt about having children now that we are older. Most of us are very grateful we have children. The folks who shouldn't have had children or who have abandoned their kids to the streets or dumped them on grandparents are not posting on this forum . . .
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:42 AM
 
Location: State of Superior
8,628 posts, read 13,888,154 times
Reputation: 2770
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
Sex is a natural desire for all animals.
I do not think that, in of itself, indicates a child is having problems or is in a dysfunctional family.
It can mean that the girl feels unloved by her dad and is looking for a substitute, however.
It can mean the parents do not have an open enough relationship to discuss these matters with their children and the child is left to make his own decisions in this matter.

I would prefer that a person not have sex until the part of their brains that can give them good judgment is fully developed, somewhere in their twenties, but most kids would never wait that long and I don't think, in and of itself, that it indicates there is something wrong with the child.
Its a no brainer, all we have to do is look back ( I remember ) at ourselves. Hormones run wild in teens, girls first as I recall. What I did not know then, was why all these girls were so aggressive chasing me around, when the thought of being kissed by a girl was, well disgusting ! I guess as a blue eyed blond I seemed desirable to them?.
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:55 AM
 
Location: State of Superior
8,628 posts, read 13,888,154 times
Reputation: 2770
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
The things you mention are definitely helpful in curbing unwanted pregnancies (morning after pill, legal abortion, adoption).

As far as being politically correct or couching things under a "religion" umbrella - I am not concerned with either of those things. I am interested in solutions. Religion is a personal matter and if someone doesn't feel abortion is morally correct, then they shouldn't get an abortion. I don't believe you can legislate morality but you can create legislation that will allow people to make whatever they think is the best choice for their circumstances.

All that aside . . . my point is that bringing children into poverty is not always a matter of an "accident." People consciously decide to have children as a matter of LIFESTYLE. Having a child (children) means access to benefits. We write out checks to people who are using their children as a way to support themselves. Our school systems spend billions of dollars trying to babysit children at age 4 in hopes of getting them out of crappy home situations and exposing them to "a different world." We are doing all this compensation for people who are most typically drug addicts, in and out of jail, or living with grandparents . . . b/c those kids were never brought into this world through a desire to nurture a family - they are simply meal tickets.

The last time I looked, about 12% of the nation's children are being raised by GRANDPARENTS b/c the parents either abandoned the children, are drug addicts incapable of taking care of themselves much less children, or the parent w/ custody of the children is in prison. This is a serious issue that affects all of society. And the attitude is generational and breeds more poverty.

The OP asked about how we felt about having children now that we are older. Most of us are very grateful we have children. The folks who shouldn't have had children or who have abandoned their kids to the streets or dumped them on grandparents are not posting on this forum . . .
No they are not, but nether are those of us that tried and tried to do what seemed right and failed blameless. It still haunts me that my one and only child is now 50 and we have an arms length relationship, sometimes being many years without contact.. Drugs were at the base of the problem, I wanted custody and was ready for private school, treatment, tough love....his Mother though otherwise. maybe thats a part of what I regret. It sure kept me from having anymore children with the two following wife's.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:23 AM
 
Location: State of Superior
8,628 posts, read 13,888,154 times
Reputation: 2770
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsy girl View Post
i'm an only child who has never regretted it, although i grew up in a family of middle-aged aunts, uncles in addition to my parents. with parents only, i feel i would have been much less content.

i chose not to have children for a variety of reasons and have never had regrets. i feel if you have chidren, unless they turned out really badly, it's impossible to imagine not having them in your life.

at this point, i have no relatives except a cousin many years my senior and 800 miles away. my late husband , who was one of five, and i were family for each other during the years we were married, along with a number of friends who were in and out of our lives over the years. my husband was odd man out in his family- thank heavens- and was never especially close to his four siblings, so in his case, family was not of great significance.

currently, i have a significant other, who is a family substitute, and i for him. additionally, i have one or two friends of some meaning, and many acquaintances whom i see rather regularly. i have come to the conclusion that this configuration of people in my life suits me. without the significant other, it would definitely suit me much less well, but neither additional friends nor family could fill that space for me, given what i know about myself and my needs.

so i am generally content with where i am, acknowledging the fact that life can change at any minute. yes, i have some regrets, but they are concerning those things in life over which i had no choice or control.

catsy girl
Ya , I know, but we still wonder if things would have been different if there were more offspring around. I was married two times after the first with my one and only son. Both wifes agreed before we tied the knot, NO CHILDREN. I suppose that was selfish of me to demand that, who knows now ?
As far a relatives, yes its a simple matter of attrition, age and reproducing few if any children. All thats left for me is 2 cousins, one a (double ) who I now in old age have contact. We have out lived everyone of our generation. For the most part the generational family tree on both sides is dead.
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:25 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,154,265 times
Reputation: 22373
Quote:
Originally Posted by darstar View Post
No they are not, but nether are those of us that tried and tried to do what seemed right and failed blameless. It still haunts me that my one and only child is now 50 and we have an arms length relationship, sometimes being many years without contact.. Drugs were at the base of the problem, I wanted custody and was ready for private school, treatment, tough love....his Mother though otherwise. maybe thats a part of what I regret. It sure kept me from having anymore children with the two following wife's.
DARSTAR, your post hits on the dysfunction that most of us have dealt with on some level, either in our family of origin or with the families we helped create . . . but here's the thing. As long as we did the best we knew how at the time, based on the info and our circumstances, we can't look back with self recrimination and regret. (Well, we CAN, lol, but it isn't being realistic and it won't change a thing).

We all have had to make decisions that - had we taken a different path - doubtless the results would have been altered. I, personally, decided a long time ago to be as forgiving of myself as I am to those around me . . . because for the most part, whether the harm was done to us or we were the one's creating the hurt (even unintentionally! even with the best motives!) . . . we did what we did based on what we knew how to do at the time.

Regret keeps us stuck in the past. And it is certainly an anathema to happiness and contentment!

Parenthood doesn't come with a handbook . . . no such thing as a perfect parent. I would hope that by age 50, your son would understand that.

Your journey is not over yet! Perhaps your son has his own set of regrets . . . maybe that is something the two of you could explore at some point.

While we can't change the past, we can come to peace with it. Don't be so damn hard on yourself. (((hugs)))
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