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Old 07-08-2012, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 19,001,270 times
Reputation: 15649

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Quote:
Originally Posted by htlong View Post
my father in-law is 85 and is entering the mid stages of Alzheimer's,the Dr. took his license away (way to soon) so he has been driving the last two years with no license and no insurance. (the house is in his wifes name and he holds no claim to it) but the time has come for him to get off of the road before he causes a bad accident.
for us to take his car away is the equivalent to signing his death sentence. but that would be better than allowing him to cause someone else to die or get injured.
For you to take his car away may well be unsigning someone else's death sentence.

He has no license, no insurance: he is a criminal and should be reported immediately, dad-in-law or no dad-in-law. I would have no second thoughts were he mine.

BTW, what do you mean "way to soon"???
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Old 07-08-2012, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 19,001,270 times
Reputation: 15649
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlb View Post
THANK YOU for those phone numbers.... I was looking all over the CA DMV website for that.

I also considered calling the LAPD.
This is called tough love in reversal. I urge you to do everything you can to get him off the road. The CA DMV website says that you do not have to give your name, it can be done anonymously. When he asks who the hell reported him, just say gosh, must have been one of the neighbors, or just maybe dad you were weaving around on the road and someone took down your plate number.

BTW, in my state, the cops are diligent in noticing the expiration dates of registration and inspection stickers on the windshield. How does he register his car and pass inspection with NO LICENSE???
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Old 07-08-2012, 05:23 PM
mlb
 
Location: North Monterey County
3,196 posts, read 2,866,336 times
Reputation: 4902
Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
This is called tough love in reversal. I urge you to do everything you can to get him off the road. The CA DMV website says that you do not have to give your name, it can be done anonymously. When he asks who the hell reported him, just say gosh, must have been one of the neighbors, or just maybe dad you were weaving around on the road and someone took down your plate number.

BTW, in my state, the cops are diligent in noticing the expiration dates of registration and inspection stickers on the windshield. How does he register his car and pass inspection with NO LICENSE???
My 91 year old mother in law drives. She still has her license. There's no way she is an alert driver either.

I did look all over the website to see what they do in the event of an elder driving without a license - found nothing. Do they impound the car? I guess I'll find out.

If you're caught driving without a license after DUI - they throw you in jail.

If she's found to be a good driver (which I highly doubt) - they will keep the car?

I'm just tired of their lying. We live 700 miles away - there's no way we can keep track of them. We do know there have been fender benders... NOT reported to insurance.
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Old 07-08-2012, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 19,001,270 times
Reputation: 15649
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlb View Post
My 91 year old mother in law drives. She still has her license. There's no way she is an alert driver either.

I did look all over the website to see what they do in the event of an elder driving without a license - found nothing. Do they impound the car? I guess I'll find out.

If you're caught driving without a license after DUI - they throw you in jail.

If she's found to be a good driver (which I highly doubt) - they will keep the car?

I'm just tired of their lying. We live 700 miles away - there's no way we can keep track of them. We do know there have been fender benders... NOT reported to insurance.
Saving lives is your first concern. Worse than being killed can be severe maiming. There was a case of a young girl (h.s. or college) who was getting something out of the trunk of her car within her own on-street parking space. An older driver (I forget how old, but old) was behind her and instead of shifting into reverse to pull out of his space, he shifted into forward and slammed into her, and she lost both legs. Now this could happen with a driver any age, but I maintain that there are factors in old age that greatly up the risk.

They will not keep the car. It would be up to you, after you learn that they have been ordered off the road, to go to them in person and have a reality talk, taking their keys and driving their car away, saying you will give them every penny you get for the car(s).

Honestly, the only thing that makes me sicker than your story is leaving children and pets in cars in hot weather, and them dying. Vehicles should be tools for responsible and competent people (many times the elders are responsible, but no longer truly competent).

This is just one story of many in regard to very elderly drivers:
Elderly driver sentenced to probation in California market crash - USATODAY.com

(I already know that there are people of all ages who do this kind of thing)
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:55 PM
 
9,227 posts, read 9,295,009 times
Reputation: 28930
Quote:
Old people continuing to drive when they really shouldn't is only one component of a larger and more generalized problem, namely the problem of denial - denial that they are no longer fully capable of driving, keeping the house clean, managing their own finances, and so forth. Who among us would be eager to admit to those and similar shortcomings? But of course they are putting themselves and others at risk, and the problem is worse among old people who have been stubborn and cantankerous their whole lifetimes anyway; they continue to be stubborn or the stubborness gets even worse. Sometimes a negative event (automobile accident, money disappearing from the bank account) indicates a change is long overdue, but frequently the damage has already been done by that time. There is no good solution to all this; sometimes adult children need to be more assertive, but that is no guarantee of success. Going to court to obtain a guardianship costs money and is fraught with emotional peril - and there is no guarantee of success. (What if the old person is having an exceptionally good day mentally the day of the court hearing and makes a good impression on the judge? What if siblings do not agree on the approach to take?
You are absolutely right. There is no good solution to this problem at all.

Let's assume an optimal situation where a senior with visual problems is identified and the local DMV takes away his driver's license after determining he is an unsafe driver.

What happens when the senior chooses to drive after having his license taken? Do we put 82 year old John Reckless in jail for 6 months to punish him? Its a fallacy to believe in America that simply taking someone's license away guarantees they will stop driving. Lots of drunks break the law and continue to drive even after their license has been revoked. Should Mr. Reckless's children chain him to his bed?

The real problem is a simple one and one that cannot/will not be fixed. Nor, should it necessarily be fixed. That problem is that America is a society built around the automobile. This has repercussions for individuals and repercussions for us as a nation. All I can say is that there are good aspects to it and bad aspects. The good aspects are that affordable transportation has been made readily available to tens of millions of people. The drawbacks are that it is very difficult to stop ANYONE who is determined to drive a car from driving a car.

I share anyone's concern about allowing any age group of dangerous drivers to be on the roads. When push comes to shove, I don't think there is much you can do about it.
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Old 07-08-2012, 11:03 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,962 posts, read 70,771,627 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
This just in on a PBS news report, Aug 25, 2011.

- 37 million people will be over the age of 65 by 2020.
- 90% will be driving.
- 3 million drivers are over age 85 now.
- One guy interview on PBS Newshour has just had a license renewed that is good till he is age 100.
- Only Illinois requires seniors to take a road test.

1. Is it a “dangerous luxury” for old people to operate road vehicles?
(No matter how safely the old folks think they drive, do they still pose a high potential danger?)


2. At what age do you think you’ll stop driving and why? How will you get around?


3. Other thoughts?
Don't some states require license renewal annually after a certain age?
I don't see how you can make a blanket statement about everyone over a certain age. 65 is still relatively young. 80+ could be an issue, but it's very individual. My dad was an absolute menace behind the wheel. Somehow, there were never any cops around when he pulled any extreme moves, not that I know of, anyway. People need to be able to get their groceries and get to their doc exams somehow. Some cities have senior ride services for that purpose. That's not a bad idea. Some would be too proud to admit they need the service, though, unless they were forced to give up their license. There can be huge psychological factors involved with giving up your license, which people take to be a symbol of their independence.
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Old 07-09-2012, 06:42 AM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 19,001,270 times
Reputation: 15649
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
You are absolutely right. There is no good solution to this problem at all.

Let's assume an optimal situation where a senior with visual problems is identified and the local DMV takes away his driver's license after determining he is an unsafe driver.

What happens when the senior chooses to drive after having his license taken? Do we put 82 year old John Reckless in jail for 6 months to punish him? Its a fallacy to believe in America that simply taking someone's license away guarantees they will stop driving. Lots of drunks break the law and continue to drive even after their license has been revoked. Should Mr. Reckless's children chain him to his bed?

The real problem is a simple one and one that cannot/will not be fixed. Nor, should it necessarily be fixed. That problem is that America is a society built around the automobile. This has repercussions for individuals and repercussions for us as a nation. All I can say is that there are good aspects to it and bad aspects. The good aspects are that affordable transportation has been made readily available to tens of millions of people. The drawbacks are that it is very difficult to stop ANYONE who is determined to drive a car from driving a car.

I share anyone's concern about allowing any age group of dangerous drivers to be on the roads. When push comes to shove, I don't think there is much you can do about it.
Well said. But here is where the adult kids need to step in and actually take the car away.

We four kids were about to do that in regard to our mother who was 80 at the time. We had constant conference calls about how we were going to do this, and yes some fighting over it. We strategized and agonized and decided that since our mother placed more stock in men than in women (old world men are smart women not so), we would have two of the husbands come with two of us. We knew the men wouldn't wind up saying much but they would be there for visual effect. Anyway, as soon as we got to her house she knew something was up. She was a hypersensitive person and always highly reactive. Extreme emotional reactions were not uncommon with her. We would each rather have been quartered and drawn than do this task. She refused to talk to us and actually retreated to her room, while we all stood in her kitchen shaking our heads.

She knew we were serious though, and within a few months bypassed all of us and contacted one of her grandchildren to offer her the car. This was worked out between grandmother and granddaughter. The anger at her own kids remained (for trying to control her). This was an interesting lesson for us.

So getting a youngster involved (Johnny desperately needs a car, grandma, and he'd take such good care of it, sprinkled with lots of compliments) might work. One has to really devise a good strategy for how to approach this, knowing that the issue of control is one of the most powerful things in a person. It may have less to do with actually needing or wanting to drive. And just like a child or family dog that needs to have limits, so do we even though we fight against it.
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:36 AM
mlb
 
Location: North Monterey County
3,196 posts, read 2,866,336 times
Reputation: 4902
My husband is one of his parents two children. The other - his sister - believes we are "meddling" in the parents lives. This is the daughter who wouldn't take her mother to the doctor when she visited California on vacation because "she had to go to the beach."

She is why my husband is the health care POA for his folks. She simply doesn't care.

I just got off the phone with the California DMV "Safety Office" in Van Nuys. I am completely and utterly unimpressed. Even tho dadinlaws license has expired - and he's driving - there is nothing they do - until we file the request for re-examination... which I am about to do. I'm also requesting my MIL the same re-examination. We will request anonymity - even tho all fingers will point to us. I don't care.

They do NOTHING pro-actively.
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Old 07-09-2012, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,746 posts, read 4,224,664 times
Reputation: 6866
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlb View Post
My husband is one of his parents two children. The other - his sister - believes we are "meddling" in the parents lives. This is the daughter who wouldn't take her mother to the doctor when she visited California on vacation because "she had to go to the beach."

She is why my husband is the health care POA for his folks. She simply doesn't care.

I just got off the phone with the California DMV "Safety Office" in Van Nuys. I am completely and utterly unimpressed. Even tho dadinlaws license has expired - and he's driving - there is nothing they do - until we file the request for re-examination... which I am about to do. I'm also requesting my MIL the same re-examination. We will request anonymity - even tho all fingers will point to us. I don't care.

They do NOTHING pro-actively.
I'm sure this is very frustrating for you, but what action would you expect the DMV to take after you informed the agency that your FIL is driving on an expired license? It would be your word (if not anonymous) against his. In addition, in my state, a driver with an expired license would pay a fine if he is pulled over and receives a citation, but there is no additional penalty. I, personally, would be a Nervous Nellie driving with an expired license, but my friend has been driving with an expired license for SIX years. She does not drive outside of her community (where there are few police officers) because the vehicle she drives is not insured and has expired tags. (Long story.)

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if both your FIL and MIL pass the reexamination. Have you or your DH encouraged them to take a refresher Senior Driving Course?
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Old 07-09-2012, 02:45 PM
mlb
 
Location: North Monterey County
3,196 posts, read 2,866,336 times
Reputation: 4902
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenora View Post
I'm sure this is very frustrating for you, but what action would you expect the DMV to take after you informed the agency that your FIL is driving on an expired license? It would be your word (if not anonymous) against his. In addition, in my state, a driver with an expired license would pay a fine if he is pulled over and receives a citation, but there is no additional penalty. I, personally, would be a Nervous Nellie driving with an expired license, but my friend has been driving with an expired license for SIX years. She does not drive outside of her community (where there are few police officers) because the vehicle she drives is not insured and has expired tags. (Long story.)

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if both your FIL and MIL pass the reexamination. Have you or your DH encouraged them to take a refresher Senior Driving Course?
My FIL will not pass the test. He cannot hear (thanks to chemotherapy for lymphoma). He never turns his head to look where he's going. His speech is slurred (again thanks to a mild stroke a couple of years ago) - the examiner won't understand him.

My MIL may pass the test - but she's a princess and wants to be driven. She wants the privileges of "independence" and not the responsibility.

I cannot be the only one out there with elderly parents who refuse to stop driving.
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