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Old 09-06-2011, 11:13 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
28,542 posts, read 62,270,607 times
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Most of the assertions and anecdotes in the affirmative here seem to be describing the usual growth into maturity as young adults and similar evolution of those young adults personalities into older adults; not change from the underlying and fundamental nature of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
They may change for a little while, but they always go back to old habits.
In the other thread the OP started I used the analogy of fixing the cracked plaster finish on a wall... it can be made to look nice again and for those outsiders who didn't have experience of the crack being there before, the repair passes inspection...
but that spackle doesn't do a thing about the foundation heave that caused it.

When the right stressor again shows up in their life, like some big truck that they don't expect to rumble down their quiet suburban road, the crack will show up again and show what is still there.
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Old 09-06-2011, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 18,994,426 times
Reputation: 15649
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Most of the assertions and anecdotes in the affirmative here seem to be describing the usual growth into maturity as young adults and similar evolution of those young adults personalities into older adults; not change from the underlying and fundamental nature of them.



In the other thread the OP started I used the analogy of fixing the cracked plaster finish on a wall... it can be made to look nice again and for those outsiders who didn't have experience of the crack being there before, the repair passes inspection...
but that spackle doesn't do a thing about the foundation heave that caused it.

When the right stressor again shows up in their life, like some big truck that they don't expect to rumble down their quiet suburban road, the crack will show up again and show what is still there.
I agree with this and with Z's comment just above it.
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Old 09-06-2011, 12:49 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,510,101 times
Reputation: 29081
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
40 years in Mental health services: except in only very rare instances, and up against impossible difficulties, people never change. They may change for a little while, but they always go back to old habits.

It takes an enormous personal and mental effort to change, and humans simply do not have that fortitude. And the older they get, the less mental effort they have available to change.
Luv the ageism. I think you need to get out more and meet more people; especially seniors. You just might be pleasantly surprised..

Simply put, you're wrong. Try a little faith in the fact that we all don't succumb to "senior moments" and senility when we reach a certain age.
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Old 09-06-2011, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 18,994,426 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Luv the ageism. I think you need to get out more and meet more people; especially seniors. You just might be pleasantly surprised..

Simply put, you're wrong. Try a little faith in the fact that we all don't succumb to "senior moments" and senility when we reach a certain age.
I didn't see his post as necessarily negative. Optimistic and kind people will always be so, and negative and nasty people will too, unless they have some kind of epiphany that enlightens them or some kind of tragedy that turns them. And senior moments and senility carry no blame, they are not part of one's personality or innate behavior. I personally know of no one who has significantly changed since they were younger. Their circumstances may have changed, and if personal circumstances have changed drastically for better or worse perhaps they have become depressed or more content, but generally the personality and behavior are steady under the surface. And yes, mental effort and discipline required to change for the better is rare. Those who consistently meditate or pray have, imo, a better shot at it.
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Old 09-07-2011, 06:19 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,510,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
I didn't see his post as necessarily negative. Optimistic and kind people will always be so, and negative and nasty people will too, unless they have some kind of epiphany that enlightens them or some kind of tragedy that turns them. And senior moments and senility carry no blame, they are not part of one's personality or innate behavior. I personally know of no one who has significantly changed since they were younger. Their circumstances may have changed, and if personal circumstances have changed drastically for better or worse perhaps they have become depressed or more content, but generally the personality and behavior are steady under the surface. And yes, mental effort and discipline required to change for the better is rare. Those who consistently meditate or pray have, imo, a better shot at it.
Well then, perhaps I'm one of the few but changing took force of will and the desire to be a kinder, better, calmer and more pleasant person.

I still maintain that people can and will change if they want to badly enough. YMMV!

Still a work in progress here and have my moments.
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Old 09-07-2011, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Bar Harbor, ME
1,922 posts, read 3,781,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Well then, perhaps I'm one of the few but changing took force of will and the desire to be a kinder, better, calmer and more pleasant person.

I still maintain that people can and will change if they want to badly enough. YMMV!

Still a work in progress here and have my moments.
Which is exactly what I said....

But Like I also said, I spent 40 years in Mental health counseling, and during that time, only the most motivated were actually able to change substantially and for an extended time. Of course, maybe the people who can change never go to counseling.... That is certainly possible. Professional counselors may be see a screwed group.
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Old 09-07-2011, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 18,994,426 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Well then, perhaps I'm one of the few but changing took force of will and the desire to be a kinder, better, calmer and more pleasant person.

I still maintain that people can and will change if they want to badly enough. YMMV!

Still a work in progress here and have my moments.
Well, that's what I meant--changing has to take a sustained, concentrated force of will, a sort of personal epiphany/enlightenment. No one changes just simply because they want to, they have to do the work, over time.

Curmudgeons don't develop overnight.
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Old 09-07-2011, 07:32 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,510,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
Well, that's what I meant--changing has to take a sustained, concentrated force of will, a sort of personal epiphany/enlightenment. No one changes just simply because they want to, they have to do the work, over time.

Curmudgeons don't develop overnight.
They certainly do not. It takes many years of hard work and sustained effort!
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Old 09-07-2011, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ottawa Valley & Dunedin FL
1,409 posts, read 2,357,011 times
Reputation: 1159
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
When the right stressor again shows up in their life, like some big truck that they don't expect to rumble down their quiet suburban road, the crack will show up again and show what is still there.
I'm not sure this is completely or universally true.

I personally feel that I have resolved many of the issues that affected my life and behaviour when I was younger--I overcame debilitating low self-esteem as well as paralyzing shyness to have a successful and interesting career, and to be much more relaxed and easy meeting new people and functioning socially.

For example, I could, at the height of my career, get up and make a speech, or function well at a board meeting where I had to present reports or at a sales meeting where I had to explain production functionality.

This from someone who, after graduating from university with honours, refused to consider a graduate degree because I would have to function in small-group seminars, or even tutor a group of students. I also refused to go to teacher's college for the same reason.

It took years, and lots of work personally, but I really feel like I changed fundamentally.
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Old 09-10-2011, 09:16 PM
 
5,399 posts, read 6,545,752 times
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In my opinion people don't change who or what they are to any great degree and if they do, they regress to mean in times of stress, etc.

Major life events could cause and exception. And I have seen people who acted kinda squirrely but in their hearts' were good people and that is what they showed themselves through time.

That was the title of your post.

But you asked about personality changes. Personalities may very well change and the change can be deliberate or by circumstance

So good luck with your excellent question. Things usually work out in the end.
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