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Old 07-16-2014, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Spurs country. "Go, Spurs, Go!"
3,504 posts, read 4,058,634 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
I bet he'll look it up. You forgot the accent aigu.

OK, HIW, so what yon?
The whaaaaat? LOL I understand the accent mark, but it's name is "aigu"?

I didn't take any advanced classes in school, I hated school and couldn't wait to graduate. I did take Latin in 7th grade, however not the language but the mythical beings (Zeus is the only name I remember, can't tell you who or what Zeus is or did). I have "classed" up over time as I matured. I discovered "nee" in the obits when reading about a deceased married woman, I figured out that "nee" was always followed by her maiden(?)/ former(?) name, ie Thelma Smith, nee Jones, passed away suddenly..........

 
Old 07-16-2014, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 19,166,556 times
Reputation: 15656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michigan Transplant View Post
I discovered "nee" in the obits when reading about a deceased married woman, I figured out that "nee" was always followed by her maiden(?)/ former(?) name, ie Thelma Smith, nee Jones, passed away suddenly..........
from the French:

masculine usage: John Peterson, né John Edward Robert Peterson, passed gleefully into the next world on Aug. 6...

feminine usage: Anna Smith, née Anna Josephine Murray, philanthropist, will be honored at a dinner for cats and dogs on July 19...

The print media seldom if ever use accents so you won't see them in obits. Online media do, often but not always. Not sure about that formal rag, the NYT.
 
Old 07-16-2014, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,017 posts, read 17,933,764 times
Reputation: 32336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michigan Transplant View Post
The whaaaaat? LOL I understand the accent mark, but it's name is "aigu"?
..........
That is the French word for that particular accent. In English it can be called an acute accent. If it slants the other way it's a grave accent. Here is an acute accent: André.
 
Old 07-17-2014, 06:11 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,621,731 times
Reputation: 22439
Thank you, Funisart and in_newengland for the info and links! It helps so much to get recommendations from others who actually wear and enjoy brands of shoes. Nothing like the personal experience--really appreciate it!
 
Old 07-17-2014, 11:43 PM
Status: "Support the Mining Law of 1872" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Cody, WY
9,667 posts, read 11,120,907 times
Reputation: 19458
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post

The jobs were almost all blue collar.

By the last half of the 20th C, men with degrees (and MBAs) in such things as engineering, marketing, finance, manufacturing, etc held leadership positions in factories, as well as salaries over $100k.

People who worked in factories wore short sleeve shirts, so cuffs wouldn't get caught in machines.

People (young execs) who worked in the offices distinguished themselves with their clothing by wearing long sleeved shirts.

Bermudas and long sleeved button down shirts are de rigeur, typically accompanied by boat shoes or cole hahn type loafers.

PS. Authentic Hawaiian shirts can be fun with bermudas, white or khaki, especially at a BBQ or on a boat. Some folks even pair them with a nice jacket in the evening. It is tricky to pull that look off, though.
Demeanor and countenance should be ample to separate labor from management, but I do understand.

I don't pay attention to what other people wear unless it's something funny or extreme. I think, however, I'd be laughing uncontrollably if I saw someone in shorts with a sport coat or an expensive long sleeve shirt. I can't quite imagine the Hawaiian shirt as part of the ''ensemble''.

Except for high school P.E. I haven't worn shorts since I was perhaps five years old.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CCc girl View Post
LOL old_cold only a snowbird would know.

Ani, your long post on fashion makes me wishful, O to be south where people don't dare go out in PJ pants and dirty flip flops........
I never have seen it here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oddstray View Post
off the top of my head ...

i.e. Latin, "that is" Correct, the full spelling is id est.

e.g. Latin, "for example" Correct, the full spelling is exempla gratia.

R.s.v.p. French "please reply" "Respondez s'il vous plait" Correct.

op.cit. Latin? Yes, Latin, opus citatum, It is used in a footnote after the author's name to indicate the reference is to that work of the same author listed previously. It does not, however, ever refer to the preceding foot note. For that we use ibid. fr. ibidem without the author's name.
ibid. Latin, something like "same cite as before"

F.R.S. Fellow of the Royal Society

K.B. Kaybee Toys! :-D Knight of the Bath

etc. Latin "and so on" "etcetera" It means and the rest, Lat. et cetera. Correctly, it should only refer to inanimate entities since cetera is a neuter plural.

et al. Latin, "and all" No, it means others or the others. It may abbreviate alii ( masculine), aliae (fem.) or alia (neut.)

& c. I love this abbreviation although I've never seen it used after c. 1850. It's not only identical in meaning to etc., but it's identical in form. That's right. You see our old friend the ampersand is a fancy form of et dating back to the days of illuminated manuscripts. So many have no idea whatsoever what it is, but feel free to use it; make them suffer. It's etymologically correct.

q.v. There are two meanings. In the first, it's quod vide, see this. If an author mentions another part of a book or article he places this after the salient term to send the reader scurrying.. In the second meaning it's quantum vis, however much you wish; it's used in prescriptions where it's usually translated as needed.

Mrs. abbreviation, possibly middle English "Mistress" That's correct, but it's EME (Early Modern English).

(geek warning) If I include a return statement in the middle of a method, I usually comment: // Nota Bene(/geek warning)
Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
gotcha: yon?

It means there, over there, sometimes to there. It can be adjectival, e.g., yon lazy slaves or adverbial, e.g., the lazy slaves yon.

BTW, i.e. is followed by a comma; RSVP no longer has periods and is set in caps; eg no longer uses periods; Mrs. no longer used in business communications; ibid. is not used if the previous citation is a different edition
i.e. can only be used in constructions requiring a following comma, but the comma itself is not part of the abbreviation.

I disagree with your other two opinions. We do not have an academy here nor in any other English-speakng country. We rely on educated usage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michigan Transplant View Post
I recognize and sometimes use: i.e., e.g., R.s.v.p., etc., et al., and Mrs.

I thought of: nee. Did I stump you???
No, it just means born, past participle of naitre. Sorry, I can't type a circumflex.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
I bet he'll look it up. You forgot the accent aigu.
I didn't need to look it up; I read French.

[/quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
Formal salutations: Mr. / Ms.
There's no period in Ms unless it's at the end of a sentence. When the Modern Language Association concocted that abomination they so decreed.
 
Old 07-18-2014, 06:01 AM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 19,166,556 times
Reputation: 15656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post


i.e. can only be used in constructions requiring a following comma, but the comma itself is not part of the abbreviation.

I disagree with your other two opinions. We do not have an academy here nor in any other English-speakng country. We rely on educated usage.



No, it just means born, past participle of naitre. Sorry, I can't type a circumflex.



I didn't need to look it up; I read French.

There's no period in Ms unless it's at the end of a sentence. When the Modern Language Association concocted that abomination they so decreed.[/quote]

-------------------------------------------------

...

Editors use industry-standard references such as the esteemed Chicago Manual of Style (unless they're using one of the several other styles, which differ mainly in citations and bibliography style).

Chicago is not only a widely accepted standard guide, it's a great read just for the fun of it. Abbreviations
But I take it seriously. It's my work bible, unless I'm directed to use another manual. When I did work for the American Psychological Assn, I had to use APA style. If a client is in a field that uses a particular style, such as MLA, the editor must use that one. Medical publishers have their own language usage manuals, often called their "house" style, with their own hefty tomes.

When I worked in newspapers, I had to use Associated Press (AP) style with its different rules. We use the series comma in news writing—Tom, Dick, and Harry—whereas the "English Department" style is Tom, Dick and Harry. You can easily see why it's important to be meticulous in news reporting. Commas in the right place can make a big difference in reader comprehension. On top of AP style, some papers like the NYT have their own house style. It's enough to make one crazy!

So the point is that there are differing styles in usage and punctuation, though the differences aren't wild. It's interesting to keep up with the changes in punctuation as they evolve, which is why editors need to keep getting the latest edition of whatever style ref they're using. Generally, periods in abbreviations are passé; however, we don't just drop the periods when we feel like it. We have to consult our chosen manual.

Chicago style uses a period after “Ms.” (and, not to be argumentative, but I believe that goes for MLA style as well).
 
Old 07-18-2014, 10:00 AM
Status: "Support the Mining Law of 1872" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Cody, WY
9,667 posts, read 11,120,907 times
Reputation: 19458
Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
There's no period in Ms unless it's at the end of a sentence. When the Modern Language Association concocted that abomination they so decreed.
-------------------------------------------------

...

Editors use industry-standard references such as the esteemed Chicago Manual of Style (unless they're using one of the several other styles, which differ mainly in citations and bibliography style).

Chicago is not only a widely accepted standard guide, it's a great read just for the fun of it. Abbreviations
But I take it seriously. It's my work bible, unless I'm directed to use another manual. When I did work for the American Psychological Assn, I had to use APA style. If a client is in a field that uses a particular style, such as MLA, the editor must use that one. Medical publishers have their own language usage manuals, often called their "house" style, with their own hefty tomes.

When I worked in newspapers, I had to use Associated Press (AP) style with its different rules. We use the series comma in news writing—Tom, Dick, and Harry—whereas the "English Department" style is Tom, Dick and Harry. You can easily see why it's important to be meticulous in news reporting. Commas in the right place can make a big difference in reader comprehension. On top of AP style, some papers like the NYT have their own house style. It's enough to make one crazy!

So the point is that there are differing styles in usage and punctuation, though the differences aren't wild. It's interesting to keep up with the changes in punctuation as they evolve, which is why editors need to keep getting the latest edition of whatever style ref they're using. Generally, periods in abbreviations are passé; however, we don't just drop the periods when we feel like it. We have to consult our chosen manual.

Chicago style uses a period after “Ms.” (and, not to be argumentative, but I believe that goes for MLA style as well).[/quote]

English speaking countries, unlike Romance Language countries, have never had government-funded academies; the standards are rather those of good usage as exemplified by certain authors and publications both scholarly and popular, e.g., The New Yorker. We do have a great deal of choice as illustrated by national differences; the only imperative is to make the text as comprehensible as possible to the reader. That limits choices nearly as much as an academy would without silly quibbles over details. Scholarly publictions make an effort to change only what's necessary as it's assumed that readers, while highly educated, may not immediately recognize and be startled by a change from e.g. > eg. Someone whose native language is Hungarian might be even if fluent in English. I'm very much a traditionalist and have never been faulted for it. I'm not a professional writer although I've published some articles. I've never had a problem with editors.

I see no reason to drop periods in abbreviations. Additionally, I find Tom, Dick, and Harry greatly preferable to Tom, Dick and Harry. The latter implies a closer relationship beteen Dick and Harry than either has with Tom. Would you prefer lemons, oranges and macaroni to lemons, oranges, and macaroni? We might wish to bring lemons and oranges semantically closer, but there are other ways to acccomplish that. Rules should be as universal as practical and as unmessy as possible. We would certainly laugh if a menu or grocery list that a wife writes for her husband used this punctuation. In the age of electronic text it's unlikely that she would bother with columns. The poor devil might search for an hour trying to find oranges and macaroni.
 
Old 07-18-2014, 11:27 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,621,731 times
Reputation: 22439
Lordy. I was trained as an editor over 35 years ago and am competent using 5 different styles/manuals.

I tried to stay out of the conversation b/c who the hell wants to hear this stuff, lololol.

I get paid to do what I do b/c folks DO NOT KNOW what diacritical marks are, what printer's marks are, what proofreader notations mean, what abbreviations denote, etc. I am glad everyone doesn't know this stuff -- it means jobs security. :-)

I have been editor-in-chief of two publications, editor of another, and have worked as a contract employee for a publishing house. When I was in charge of those publications, I created MY OWN STYLISTICS along with the voice of the publication. So . . . when you have to follow a manual, you follow the manual. Otherwise, change the rules!!!

"Miss" is a perfectly acceptable honorific. HOWEVER . . . I have found that people look cross-eyed at honorifics these days. I rarely get anything addressed to Mrs. Anifani (or even the dreaded Ms Anifani). Hubby likes to be addressed as Dr. but even the MDs I know don't use (or expect) to be addressed as "Dr. Dogood" (in writing).

I avoid using Ms/Ms. and always have. In fact, I avoid titles, period. James Dogood, MD instead of Dr. James Dogood. But that is just me. If the client wants me to follow Chicago, MLA, NY Times, etc . . . then I do what they want.

Most of the time, I think getting hung up on such things makes people waaaaay too uptight. Most communication is casual and no reason for all the consternation . . .

I dn't care if u use abbreviations . . . I dn't care if u spell wrds incrrctly. I dn't care if u use slang. I dn't care if u murder grammar and stylistics.

As long as I get the msg, we are kewl.

lololol
 
Old 07-18-2014, 11:45 AM
 
5,428 posts, read 6,643,856 times
Reputation: 10558
will disagree a little bit about as long as you can communicate.

It seems that people not of our generation don't really appreciate the full meaning of a word and they lose the richness of what is being conveyed. they use one word that can have broad meanings and in their LOL shorthand, is sufficient to convey the general intent.

"I am devastated that the car hit my dog." vs. "I am upset that the car hit my dog." If I am devastated I am worlds beyond merely being upset. Yet to some, there is no difference.

Just bugs me
 
Old 07-18-2014, 04:45 PM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,607 posts, read 12,482,829 times
Reputation: 15595
I like honorifics. I think it shows courtesy and respect.

Usually the students call me Officer Clark ... when I'm on patrol it annoys me when they call me just Clark - as if I'm their pal or chum or something. I'm older than many of their fathers.
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