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Old 09-19-2011, 01:39 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,479,691 times
Reputation: 29071

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas User View Post
Why didn't you do a pre-nup to protect your assets?
Trust! And it wouldn't have mattered if I had. ERISA overrules prenups. Same applies to this marriage. Nobody asked me for one either!

Kinda judgmental there, ain'tcha?

 
Old 09-19-2011, 01:49 PM
 
12,671 posts, read 21,056,165 times
Reputation: 2625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Trust! And it wouldn't have mattered if I had. ERISA overrules prenups. Same applies to this marriage. Nobody asked me for one either!

Kinda judgmental there, ain'tcha?
The Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974?
What does that have to do with pre-nup?
 
Old 09-19-2011, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,735,102 times
Reputation: 32304
Default This is really THE question about people struggling on SS alone.

While the question in the OP was posed in an insensitive and judgemental way, I think it goes to the heart of our attitudes towards those people who are barely scraping by on Social Security alone. That question is, in a nutshell, "Is it their fault for poor planning and lack of financial self-control over time, or is it the result of unfortunate and tragic circumstances beyond their control?" My personal answer is that there are many people of each type. Therefore, there is no valid general answer. To think that no one is "guilty" is naive in the extreme, and to think that everyone is "guilty" is unrealistic and cruel. Some people spent every dollar that came across their palm with no thought for tomorrow, and other people have suffered terrible reversals that make us just want to sit down and cry.

We will be talking past each other if we adopt only one or the other point of view.
 
Old 09-19-2011, 02:33 PM
 
5,822 posts, read 13,315,622 times
Reputation: 9290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas User View Post
Not financially unless pre-nup.
Years ago when many of us married, pre-nups hadn't come into the picture.
Military pensions cannot be changed by pre-nup (on average, spouse gets half after 10 years of marriage), company pension Qdro and Erisa overides prenups, to name a few exceptions. More importantly none of us thought we would end in divorce.
 
Old 09-19-2011, 02:42 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,479,691 times
Reputation: 29071
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas User View Post
The Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974?
What does that have to do with pre-nup?
Everything with a "protected," defined benefit, government pension in a community property state.

And not that we all know how devilishly clever you are feel free to go interrogate someone else.

Sheesh! There's one in every crowd!
 
Old 09-19-2011, 03:01 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,160,016 times
Reputation: 22373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas User View Post

You must have lived a very charmed life, indeed, to have everything so well planned out. I salute you for having all the answers. Very few people can stand in judgment of everyone else without appearing to be a fool and a hypocrite.

I am aware of all the happenings in life. I thought you can file bankruptcy on medical bills?

Now there's a thought. Just skip out on what you legitimately owe everyone, lose your house, and ruin your credit. Great idea. I will be sure and pass that on, especially to anyone who is over 60 and won't mind losing everything they own and have worked a lifetime to acquire - and who don't mind feeling smug about cheating creditors on legitimate debt.

It should be smart to do a pre-nuptial agreement don't you think you protect yoru assets?

Maybe you are an attorney and learned about such things back in the 60s, but I never even heard the term at the time I got married the first time.

Most companies do 401K's and Roth 401K's now which has a far more chance of a greater return at retirement plus tax advantages.

Very true! But we are talking about folks who have already retired or forced to leave work due to disability, cutting off their earning years and time needed to build up such accounts. And for those of us who are self-employed, there isn't anyone out there matching funds. Many people do not work for companies that offer any type of retirement funding. I have been earning a paycheck since 1969, and I was employed by only 1 employer in all those years that offered any such plan - and that was on a temporary assignment of less than a year.

With proper education and patience, you should not have to worry about losses in the stock market.

You wouldn't happen to be my former stock broker? Can we say Enron and Worldcom? LOL

Why rely on your spouse alone for money?

Just b/c a person has a job, or even a career, it doesn't mean the money is enough to live off (or save up for retirement) if one's spouse dies. To think otherwise is just silly and condescending.

There is disability insurance and attractive ones.

Have you ever looked into how much it costs to buy a decent policy when not purchased through a group situation? Obviously NOT. Everyone is not employed at a business that offers such plans, and I have never seen one that paid off that was cheap, even when offered by an employer.

I thought you can get insurance to protect yourself from lawsuits? How come they did not get proper insurance?

I know very few folks who have a balloon policy on their homeowners insurance, other than the very wealthy. Most people are not in the position to pay for more insurance annually, especially at the age of 85. As I stated in that little story, the couple did have homeowner's insurance but HO insurance isn't going to indemnify folks from such extraordinarily large settlements and all costs included w/ lawsuits. It all depends on the policy coverage, the state in wh/ you live, etc.


'
Anything else?
 
Old 09-19-2011, 03:11 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,160,016 times
Reputation: 22373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Helps explain why we have a balloon policy along with our homeowners insurance.

Now divorce I can identify with. I lost half my defined benefit pension funds but thankfully, enough remained and was added in succeeding years that while it hurt it has not been a "defining" or severely limiting issue.

Besides, the divorce would have been cheap at twice the cost!
Well, I don't know that I would say the divorce would be cheap at 2 x the cost . . . but I will definitely say that the divorce was worth every penny it cost, both in lost assets and attorneys fees - and definitely in peace of mind and longterm happiness.
 
Old 09-19-2011, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
16,133 posts, read 20,822,095 times
Reputation: 8293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas User View Post
Why do you chose to live this way?

Did you plan for your retirement at all in your early years?

Not enough education on investments and how money works?

Unfortunate life events? (Disability, Long-term unemployement in your career, very low-income earnings, etc)



I didn't plan on being shot in Vietnam How stupid of me

I paid into Social Security for over 30 years why wouldn't I collect
 
Old 09-19-2011, 03:19 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,160,016 times
Reputation: 22373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
While the question in the OP was posed in an insensitive and judgemental way, I think it goes to the heart of our attitudes towards those people who are barely scraping by on Social Security alone. That question is, in a nutshell, "Is it their fault for poor planning and lack of financial self-control over time, or is it the result of unfortunate and tragic circumstances beyond their control?" My personal answer is that there are many people of each type. Therefore, there is no valid general answer. To think that no one is "guilty" is naive in the extreme, and to think that everyone is "guilty" is unrealistic and cruel. Some people spent every dollar that came across their palm with no thought for tomorrow, and other people have suffered terrible reversals that make us just want to sit down and cry.

We will be talking past each other if we adopt only one or the other point of view.
My point is . . . it is what it is. It doesn't matter WHY a person is struggling. If he or she is struggling, then that is the reality of their lives, regardless how they got to that point. There is no need to be judgmental, period.

They may be a felon and just out of prison . . . they may be an AIDs patient and lost everything and have no insurance and no one to help support them and their medical costs . . . they may be a widow whose hubby gambled the money away and left her w/ debt at his death. Or a person may have spent his entire life on gubment welfare, living in subsidized apartments, medicaid and food stamps.

What does it matter? Poverty is poverty, regardless how you got there.
 
Old 09-19-2011, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Prospect, KY
5,288 posts, read 17,957,332 times
Reputation: 6544
I'm appalled at the OP's tone.......life happens and sometimes people have absolutely no control over adverse circumstances....and some people, Heaven forbid, actually make mistakes that they can't fully reverse. I believe there are many people who rely primarily on social security for their income - we don't know why that is and really it isn't our business is it? Forty years ago no one would have blinked if you told them that you were relying on social security to be your primary support in your retirement years.
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