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Old 10-14-2011, 05:11 PM
 
2,912 posts, read 3,551,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post

The point I am trying to make here is that anyone, man or woman, who is allowed more choices and avenues for choosing a way of living is living in better times. I think it equally great that men are now more acceptable in traditional women's jobs like nursing or flight attendant just as much as it is for women to be in traditional men's roles like doctor or physicist.
Perhaps, but this is not the whole story. Check the history of men's wages since around 1975. The entry of so many women into the workforce around that time was a substantial factor in a stagnation and then decrease in men's wages (more applicants per job, broken unions, and so forth). At the same time, the new two-income families bid up the price of many things, including houses in good school districts, which then compelled women to enter the workforce who really didn't want to. These women effectively lost the option of staying out of the workforce. Therefore, their lives were diminished, as they lost a very valuable option. In other words, there are externalities to be considered here, rather than just the benefit to those women who chose to enter the workforce. In yet other words, many women who wanted to stay home were damaged, as were men whose wages stagnated. All told, the net economic gain for many people was small. You, personally, may be better off, whereas June Cleaver just down the street, who wanted very much to be a stay-at-home mom, might be miserable now, despite her job (or because of it), but unable to quit because of the bid-up of prices by two-income families. The fun really starts when one of the two earners loses his job, and the remaining wages don't cover household expenses. . . .

Last edited by Hamish Forbes; 10-14-2011 at 05:21 PM..
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Old 10-14-2011, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,697 posts, read 23,681,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes View Post
Perhaps, but this is not the whole story. Check the history of men's wages since around 1975. The entry of so many women into the workforce around that time was a substantial factor in a stagnation and then decrease in men's wages (more applicants per job, broken unions, and so forth). At the same time, the new two-income families bid up the price of many things, including houses in good school districts, which then compelled women to enter the workforce who really didn't want to. These women effectively lost the option of staying out of the workforce. Therefore, their lives were diminished, as they lost a very valuable option. In other words, there are externalities to be considered here, rather than just the benefit to those women who chose to enter the workforce. In yet other words, many women who wanted to stay home were damaged, as were men whose wages stagnated. All told, the net economic gain for many people was small. You, personally, may be better off, whereas June Cleaver just down the street, who wanted very much to be a stay-at-home mom, might be miserable now, despite her job (or because of it).
I agree women who might like to stay at home cannot because of the ever-increasing cost of living but it is not just due to one cause. Consumerism is ever going upward and two paychecks are required to handle it. Inflation and recession has played a part in it too.

I do know some young stay at home moms who are content not to have the latest and greatest but most people want these things. It isn't always that both parents have to work for the necessities but that they want to work for the perks.

However I do believe that most people work because they must. And by the way, there are men who would be content to stay home and take care of the kids. My ex-husband was like that. In his second marriage he made sure he found a women who earned a good salary (thanks to the Women's Movement) so he could be a house husband.

I know a couple of guys like that.

There is not just one reason for the need to earn more. And you can look at it another way. I actually witnessed this time and time again. Men took over typical women's jobs and pay increased. Women took over men's jobs and the pay decreased. This happened to me in my line of work.

But I don't want to turn this back into a discussion of equality in the job market. Obviously many of us were brought up under differing circumstances and that is going to reflect our points of view; some narrow, some broad. It all depends upon one's experience.
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Old 10-14-2011, 05:32 PM
 
7,340 posts, read 16,653,411 times
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True about where you live! Before meeting my wife, I went to Boseman and Billings, Montana and Sheridan and Cheyenne, Wyoming. Since I had been involved in rodeo in So Calif, I fit in quite well with the locals in Montana and Wyoming! Yes, I had Wrangler jeans and the whole "cowboy" look. And then, after I met my wife, we went to rodeo's in both Laramie and Cheyenne. There again, because of the Western attire we were wearing, we fit in quit well. We took a vacation to Yellowstone NP and stopped in Cody for a couple of days. Very interesting and VERY "Western".......we loved it. Went to the Cody Museum. As for us, we can live in a "diverse" atmosphere or not. Wyoming, the "Cowboy State" is very nice.......but the winters can be something else, right?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
People did this fifty years ago; they do it today. It depends upon where you are. Everyone does it where I live on secondary rural roads. In town people don't and never did unless it's a tiny town and people are traveling very slowly. It's not that town folks are discourteous, however; there are just too many vehicles.

But based upon their previous posts, most posters on this thread would hate these areas because they're all White. The culture is White. The closest Cody, Wyoming comes to "diversity" is a couple of Chinese restaurants. There is a Mexican restaurant or two. But most people prefer Taco John's.

In the summer there's a nightly show on the steet. It features a shoot out and a great deal of comedy. Several hundred people see it every night. The show is free but people can rent a chair on the porch of the Irma Hotel with the proceeds going to charity. The first time I saw the show and the audience I thought I was back in the West of 1950. I think it feels the same for everyone there even if they were born in 1990. Is there a "diverse" audience? No. If there were it wouldn't be what it is.

I'm glad I live here.
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Old 10-14-2011, 05:35 PM
 
2,912 posts, read 3,551,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
I agree women who might like to stay at home cannot because of the ever-increasing cost of living but it is not just due to one cause.
That's why I said "a substantial factor."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
But I don't want to turn this back into a discussion of equality in the job market.
Then stop bringing up the subject.
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Old 10-14-2011, 05:37 PM
 
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One thing I have to say about what my "farmer friend" said on Facebook:
When we lived in So Calif, we would go to Norco quite often.........I use to rope there at Jackpots. Anyway, Norco is/was a definite "horse town" and even a story about it in Western Horseman magazine. Unfortunately, a lot of people from Orange and LA County moved there and the great "horse/cowboy/cowgirl" thing started disappearing. I know one thing for a fact, the locals sure hated it when some new residents want to build sidewalks where horse trails were along the main drag. Anyway, this "horse town" would have looked awesome back in the day of Lassie/Rin Tin Tin!
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Old 10-14-2011, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ottawa Valley & Dunedin FL
1,409 posts, read 2,356,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LibraGirl123 View Post
Ugh...permanents. The cycle in our house was like this: Mom had our hair cut short and permed for the first day of school in September. By the following summer, our hair was long enough to put in a ponytail, but as September approached...the dreaded hair cut/perm loomed on the horizon.

Like you, I detest short, curly hair on myself. My hair hasn't been short since I was a senior in high school...and I like it that way.
Oh god, you've reminded me! I hated that, I also kepot my hair long for decades afterwards!

One summer, I spent with a maiden aunt, while my mother went off on a "grand (bus) tour" of Europe. My aunt got my hair cut and permed, but this time at the beginning of the summer! Then she complained if I got it wet in the local swimming pool!
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Old 10-14-2011, 05:42 PM
 
7,340 posts, read 16,653,411 times
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Back in those "oldie, but goodie days", I had to watch Lawrence Welk with my parents on Saturday nights, that was unless there was a Class dance going on, then I go to go to that. But other than that, every Saturday night was Lawrence Welk and either popcorn or ice cream. I didn't get sick of the pop corn or ice cream, but I SURE DID of Lawrence Welk! Was darn glad when I was a Senior in high school and able to get a part-time job at a nice restaurant in the city. Had to work on Saturday nights and that was simply GREAT to me!!
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Old 10-14-2011, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,697 posts, read 23,681,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes View Post
That's why I said "a substantial factor."




Then stop bringing up the subject.
My last subjects were all about kids and the old neighborhoods and have nothing to do with the subject you keep bringing up.

My response was to your last post which brought the subject back.

But to one and all, and the OP, I apologize for doing this. I promise no more.

I think Hamish and I can just agree to disagree and let it go at that.
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Old 10-14-2011, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,617 posts, read 2,065,057 times
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Who wouldn't like to go back to when they were a kid, with little or no responsibility? I ain't sure if I would ask my father (if he were alive today) that he liked working two full times jobs while my mother was picking strawberries in order to make it.
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Old 10-14-2011, 07:17 PM
 
2,912 posts, read 3,551,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post

I think Hamish and I can just agree to disagree and let it go at that.
OK -- all the best -- HF
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