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There are other ways to look at this. Many people in the 1950's were well aware of the different roles that men and women had, but nevertheless believed that the best overall society was one that built upon the strength of the traditional family (I still do). Both parents contributed toward the advantage of the children -- the mother by staying home and taking care of them, and the father by submitting to the demands of the workplace.
This ended when June Cleaver got a subpoena to appear in the workplace around 1970, Ward's salary took it in the chops because of the expanded workforce (and other factors), housing prices in good school districts were bid way up by two-income families, and most of the remaining economic surplus from the expanded workforce went into childcare costs, CEO salaries, bonuses, shareholder compensation, and financial speculation.
Meanwhile, Beaver and Wally joined a gang, discovered drugs, and became graffiti artists, because poor June and Ward were too worn out from working to notice. People like Helen Reddy made out like bandits, though, riding the crest of what was going on.
Curmudgeon, I agree the focus of the thread got way too narrow.
As I said, I think an occasional weekend trip to those days would be fun. I'd watch Your Show of Shows and other programs that weren't able to be saved for posterity. I'd listen to lots of AM radio. I'd go to the soda fountain at Woolworths and get chipped ham at Isaly's, for those who remember it. I think restaurant dining would probably be disappointing, as our tastes have changed and it's hard to go back. I'd go poke around in stores that have closed or turned into Macy's, enjoying the old familiar sights, sounds and smells. I'd go see a musical. I'd get in a great-looking car, (probably scared bleepless without a seatbelt), and to get away from the haze of my hometown, and the black smoke belching out of the trucks I'd take a ride to the country. It wouldn't take long to get there without the sprawl. It would be a great couple of days, but then I'd be glad to get back to my home in 2011.
Amazing how this has all turned into - first - a racial discrimination discussion and - second - a women's equality discussion. How too bad!
I don't think that anyone with the least bit of cognition would dispute the fact that "them thar days" were fraught with what, nowadays, would be significant social issues revolving around equal rights. Point taken, given and hopefully laid to rest. We dealt with them, or not, to the extent that they were a part of the general "consciousness" of those times. We didn't know any better.
Now then, moving back to the original question posed (would you go back), those were also simpler, safer and likely more satisfying times than most experience now or ever have. Graffiti and gangs were inner-city anomalies as portrayed in West Side Story. Drive-bys and car-jackings were unheard of. Drug cartels - wazzat?, etc. For all their "hidden" faults, the Beaver Cleavers were alive and well. Corporate America still felt and displayed some sense of responsibility for and loyalty to its workers and that loyalty was returned full measure.
I don't care how the "modern", the "youngsters" and the uninitiated care to portray them, those were good times in the overall scheme of things and should be remembered, cherished and not derided or buried under the tombstone of political correctness. If you missed them, in the vernacular of my times, "Sorry about that!"
In giving reasons why as women some of us would not wish to go back, and the question was "Would you?" some have turned this into a women's equality discussion by labling the posters as Feminists. This then turned the subject more to politics. It was not meant to be taken as that by my posts nor, I think, any of the other women who were simply describing the conditions in which they grew up and to which they would not like to return. Again, the question was "Would you go back? '
I lived in inner city Chicago for my first eight or nine years. There were gangs and drugs and the like. Graffitti, gang fights and car jackings certainly did exist in my neighborhood. There were especially gang fights between Italian and Irish gangs on our street. They were knowed as "turf wars."
The Mafia controlled our neighborhood. But for the families that lived there, it was not a bad thing. That sounds strange but the gangs protected their neighborhoods. It was kind of like a neighborhood watch. And kids were protected and never harmed.
There was the candy store down the street and a small grocery store around the corner along with a tavern and butcher shop. All were owned by the Mafia including the large apartment building where my family lived.
It was great for a kid. We played in the alleys and sidewalks and the empty lot next door. We played kis games with no parents involved whatsoever.
Games were hopscotch, pinners, a form of softball, statues, red rover, jump rope, mother may I and more. All games were organized by kids and everyone boys, girls, little kids and older ones were allowed to play.
School was walking distance and we came home for lunch to hear Ma Perkins on the radio. We listened to a lot of radio shows in the 50's.
Would I like to go back in time and spend a few days back then? Sure, as the child I was then but just to visit, because I wouldn't want to stay there.
In giving reasons why as women some of us would not wish to go back, and the question was "Would you?" some have turned this into a women's equality discussion by labling the posters as Feminists. This then turned the subject more to politics. It was not meant to be taken as that by my posts nor, I think, any of the other women who were simply describing the conditions in which they grew up and to which they would not like to return. Again, the question was "Would you go back? '
I lived in inner city Chicago for my first eight or nine years. There were gangs and drugs and the like. Graffitti, gang fights and car jackings certainly did exist in my neighborhood. There were especially gang fights between Italian and Irish gangs on our street. They were knowed as "turf wars."
The Mafia controlled our neighborhood. But for the families that lived there, it was not a bad thing. That sounds strange but the gangs protected their neighborhoods. It was kind of like a neighborhood watch. And kids were protected and never harmed.
There was the candy store down the street and a small grocery store around the corner along with a tavern and butcher shop. All were owned by the Mafia including the large apartment building where my family lived.
It was great for a kid. We played in the alleys and sidewalks and the empty lot next door. We played kis games with no parents involved whatsoever.
Games were hopscotch, pinners, a form of softball, statues, red rover, jump rope, mother may I and more. All games were organized by kids and everyone boys, girls, little kids and older ones were allowed to play.
School was walking distance and we came home for lunch to hear Ma Perkins on the radio. We listened to a lot of radio shows in the 50's.
Would I like to go back in time and spend a few days back then? Sure, as the child I was then but just to visit, because I wouldn't want to stay there.
Well, if anyplace was an inner-city anomaly it would be Chicago, (my father's birthplace, by the way) dontcha think? Some things never change!
Well, if anyplace was an inner-city anomaly it would be Chicago, (my father's birthplace, by the way) dontcha think? Some things never change!
Small world! What part of Chicago was your father born?
I don't know if it is an anomaly for an inner-city neighborhood because I only knew this city. When we moved to a "better" neighborhood, we didn't experience anything like this.
We would need our time machines (or Tardises if you follow Doctor Who?) to really go back to the way things were. That would be fun for awhile but as I said before, for me it would be only as a kid.
One thing for sure, I would not want to be a kid today in the present world.
Chicago, in the 40's and 50's was, if not unique, at least unusual in that it had many very tightly knit neighborhoods that functioned as small towns. In our neighborhood, we were the only Italian family in an Irish / German/ Appalacian neighborhood, and the only catholics, but our strongest connections were always to our neighbors, most of whom treated us a family, and have done so throughout our lives. My fondest memories of our neighbors, who functioned as aunts, uncles and cousins to us.
Chicago, in the 40's and 50's was, if not unique, at least unusual in that it had many very tightly knit neighborhoods that functioned as small towns. In our neighborhood, we were the only Italian family in an Irish / German/ Appalachian neighborhood, and the only catholics, but our strongest connections were always to our neighbors, most of whom treated us a family, and have done so throughout our lives. My fondest memories of our neighbors, who functioned as aunts, uncles and cousins to us.
Yes, exactly. My neighborhood consisted of mainly Italians, a few Jews and a small amount of Irish. Since it was predominantly Catholic, the Catholic kids were allowed to leave public school an hour early to go to Catechism.
In my neighborhood a kid could go to any apartment in our vast building to get a drink of water, a band aid or anything else we needed if our moms weren't around. Or even if they were. Sometimes, like my sister and me, we just didn't want to climb up the three flights of stairs to get what we needed.
This worked especially well for those of us who had working mothers.
Neighbors were family. No question about it. I too still remember mine.
Small world! What part of Chicago was your father born?
I don't know if it is an anomaly for an inner-city neighborhood because I only knew this city. When we moved to a "better" neighborhood, we didn't experience anything like this.
We would need our time machines (or Tardises if you follow Doctor Who?) to really go back to the way things were. That would be fun for awhile but as I said before, for me it would be only as a kid.
One thing for sure, I would not want to be a kid today in the present world.
My grandparents lived on N. Oakley Blvd. between Chicago Ave. and W. Augusta Blvd. Looks liken they were close to what is now Ukranian Village which would make sense since my grandfather was a Russian Jew. Dad wasn't raised there though. He was raised by his mother in New York which is where he identifies with.
It looks like they lived in an apartment in what is now condos.
My grandparents lived on N. Oakley Blvd. between Chicago Ave. and W. Augusta Blvd. Looks liken they were close to what is now Ukranian Village which would make sense since my grandfather was a Russian Jew. Dad wasn't raised there though. He was raised by his mother in New York which is where he identifies with.
It looks like they lived in an apartment in what is now condos.
I'm with you about being a kid in today's world.
I think I remember that area. I do remember Augusta Blvd. We lived in the Garfield Park neighborhood. Right on the corner of Springfield and Ohio.
The last time I was back there was in the 80's. It looked like a bombed out city. Our building and the little stores had been demolished.
I don't know if it's improved today which is why if I could go back, it would be to the time when it was still a decent neighborhood.
Oh, and I forgot to mention with all the other kid amenties we had a genuine "haunted" house a couple of blocks away. We kids would dare one another to enter. I think one of the braver boys did at one time.
Really it was just an abandonded house no one wanted but to us, it was a place of ghosts and all things scary. Kids were allowed to have imaginations in those days.
Really it was just an abandonded house no one wanted but to us, it was a place of ghosts and all things scary. Kids were allowed to have imaginations in those days.
Something I have always believed was essential to their growth and the true magic of childhood, and a sadly missing ingredient in the lives of today's children.
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