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Old 10-15-2011, 10:59 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,487,261 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Thanks for the data.

I'm aware of the concept, that attempts have been made toward the end, and have seen it work outside the US...
My point was (and remains as I said) that I've just not seen it actually work here.
It's been significantly used in California by the socially orchestrating and manipulating politicos, much to the distress of those people who have planned well and been able to afford nice homes. The end result has likely been a fall in overall home values. People who worked and saved for nice homes don't usually welcome low-income apartments and the troubles they often inherently bring with them in otherwise solidly middle class to affluent housing communities, nor do I blame them.
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Old 10-15-2011, 11:31 AM
 
Location: too far from the sea
19,839 posts, read 18,861,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
It's been significantly used in California by the socially orchestrating and manipulating politicos, much to the distress of those people who have planned well and been able to afford nice homes. The end result has likely been a fall in overall home values. People who worked and saved for nice homes don't usually welcome low-income apartments and the troubles they often inherently bring with them in otherwise solidly middle class to affluent housing communities, nor do I blame them.
Low income seniors and disabled people have usually worked and saved just as hard as these privileged few who want to keep their neighborhoods closed off to everyone else but themselves. The few were luckier or they worked at higher paying jobs (not necessarily worked HARDER, but just worked at jobs that paid higher).

Snooty people in snooty towns need to take a good look at themselves. (Having been raised in a snooty town and surrounded by people who looked down on everyone else, I know.)

We're not talking about bringing in drug dealers or criminals, just some ordinary people.

As for subsidized housing, you can apply anywhere in the USA but RESIDENCY in the town itself, or working there will get you in much sooner. It gets complicated because there is federal housing and there is state/federal housing and there is HUD/private housing (I think). I'm under the impression that if it's federal, not state, there is no resident preference at all. You could apply from FL and get in just as fast as someone who already lived in your future state. I think that's the way it works but don't quote me on that as it's really hard to find information and this is only what I've come up with so far.
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Old 10-15-2011, 11:39 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,487,261 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
Low income seniors and disabled people have usually worked and saved just as hard as these privileged few who want to keep their neighborhoods closed off to everyone else but themselves. The few were luckier or they worked at higher paying jobs (not necessarily worked HARDER, but just worked at jobs that paid higher).

Snooty people in snooty towns need to take a good look at themselves. (Having been raised in a snooty town and surrounded by people who looked down on everyone else, I know.)

We're not talking about bringing in drug dealers or criminals, just some ordinary people.

As for subsidized housing, you can apply anywhere in the USA but RESIDENCY in the town itself, or working there will get you in much sooner. It gets complicated because there is federal housing and there is state/federal housing and there is HUD/private housing (I think). I'm under the impression that if it's federal, not state, there is no resident preference at all. You could apply from FL and get in just as fast as someone who already lived in your future state. I think that's the way it works but don't quote me on that as it's really hard to find information and this is only what I've come up with so far.
I know all that BUT what I bolded is often the unintended consequence and reality of it as experienced many times in many subdivisions in California because the housing is not usually specified as or limited to over 55 or senior housing exclusively. If it was, that would make a difference but in a litigious state like CA, the others would be screaming about and suing for discrimination.

Quite frankly, I believe people should have the "freedom" to live in the type of neighborhood they prefer in the midst of similarly situated others and government has no place telling them what kind of neighbors they can or must have. It has less to do with "snootiness" than it does prefered lifestyle and comfort level among your social, intellectual, educational and financial peers.
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Old 10-15-2011, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Paradise Lost
291 posts, read 409,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
It's been significantly used in California...
Like I suggested in the IP, people who want to argue the politics of subsidized housing can find a number of active threads in the Politics Forum where they can knock themselves out. The intention of this thread was to provide a venue for the sharing of information among folks who are exploring the practical details of obtaining subsidized housing as part of their retirement strategy.
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Old 10-15-2011, 12:17 PM
 
Location: California Mountains
1,448 posts, read 2,588,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
...in many subdivisions in California because the housing is not usually specified as or limited to over 55 or senior housing exclusively. If it was, that would make a difference but in a litigious state like CA, the others would be screaming about and suing for discrimination
Actually, there are many tax-credit communities specifically constructed and house 55+ or 62+ seniors throughout CA. They've been around for decades. We started looking into them since the beginning of this year.

They're not subsidized housing per se, but the owners received reduced tax for the sole purpose of renting out to low income seniors. There are two level of low income: 60% and 50% of federal guideline. About 30% of the units in these complexes are reserved for seniors with income below 50% of the guideline; the rest is for the 60% bracket. The turnover for 50% bracket is extremely low, so even though our income is below that, we're aiming for the 60% bracket anyway. (Income is determined by the total amount from pensions, SS, and 2% assets from all other sources such as saving accounts or investments.)

Most tax-credit complexes for seniors pay your utilities except electricity and telephone. All of them have a deal with Comcast where tenants pay a reduced rate for cable (not internet) directly to the complex as part of the rent.

There are also subsidized (by private organizations and state funding) complexes for seniors where you only pay 30% of your income (utilities included) or 25% (utilities not included.) These are different from HUD housing in which a HUD voucher and existing CA residency are required. Some buildings have a combination of subsidized and HUD units.

The locations for these complexes/buildings range from dense working class neighbourhoods to university campuses, from high desert to rolling hills, from smack dab downtown to literally 20 walking steps to the beach. Some are mediocre; others are knockout beautiful.

Some have waiting list (3 years is the maximum, more than that, the waiting list would be closed) while other have vacancy often, there's no rhyme or rhythm about it.

Last edited by Ol' Wanderer; 10-15-2011 at 12:39 PM..
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Old 10-15-2011, 12:24 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,487,261 times
Reputation: 29071
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles in PGI View Post
Actually, there are many tax-credit communities specifically constructed and house 55+ or 62+ seniors throughout CA. They've been around for decades. We started looking into them since the beginning of this year.

They're not subsidized housing per se, but the owners received reduced tax for the sole purpose of renting out to low income seniors. There are two level of low income: 60% and 50% of federal guideline. About 30% of the units in these complexes are reserved for seniors with income below 50% of the guideline; the rest is for the 60% bracket. The turnover for 50% bracket is extremely low, so even though our income is below that, we're aiming for the 60% bracket anyway.

Most tax-credit complexes for seniors pay your utilities except electricity and telephone. All of them have a deal with Comcast where tenants pay a reduced rate for cable (not internet) directly to the complex as part of the rent.

There are also subsidized (by private organizations and state funding) complexes for seniors where you only pay 30% of your income. These are different from HUD housing in which a HUD voucher and existing CA residency are required. In the subsidized complexes, utilities are either part of the rent or at a reduced rate. Some buildings have a combination of subsidized and HUD units.

The locations for these complexes/buildings range from dense working class neighbourhoods to university campuses, from high desert to rolling hills, from smack dab downtown to literally 20 walking steps to the beach. Some are mediocre; others are knockout beautiful.

Some have waiting list of 3 years, other have vacancy often, there's no rhyme or rhythm about it.
I'm well aware of the opportunities of both subsidized and non-subsidized senior housing in CA. My wife and I both handled senior issues, politically and legislatively, for the state for many years. At issue for what I was posting about was non-specified subsidized/low income rentals/apartments/housing being mandated in new or growing subdivisions open to all who qualify financially.
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Old 10-15-2011, 01:12 PM
 
Location: California Mountains
1,448 posts, read 2,588,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
At issue for what I was posting about was non-specified subsidized/low income rentals/apartments/housing being mandated in new or growing subdivisions open to all who qualify financially.
Ah. I'm not of full knowledge of the issue, but I believe Atacasdero, Petaluma, Concord, San Luis Obispo, Solana Beach, and Rio Vista are cities with existing and future mandated inclusionary zoning (for senior and/or low income,) both with and without incentives to developers. There might or might not be more, but those are the ones whose city managers took the time to answer my inquiries.

Last edited by Ol' Wanderer; 10-15-2011 at 01:43 PM..
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Old 10-15-2011, 01:23 PM
 
10,139 posts, read 23,295,544 times
Reputation: 8290
Quote:
Originally Posted by SelflessGene View Post
Like I suggested in the IP, people who want to argue the politics of subsidized housing can find a number of active threads in the Politics Forum where they can knock themselves out. The intention of this thread was to provide a venue for the sharing of information among folks who are exploring the practical details of obtaining subsidized housing as part of their retirement strategy.
I haven't read all of the intervening posts since I responded last. Its amazing how active this thread is.

In Ohio, the standards for subsidized housing are way draconian. You really can't have much in the way of income or assets to qualify. I suppose that a person with a limited IRA balance could buy a retirement annuity and qualify. I could ask my housing assistant. But it seems to me that the people we get are people who have put no plan in place.

I did also want to address something else you may not have discussed yet. A project based HUD landlord cannot discriminate in favor of older persons. I'm sure they want to. Nothing creates problems like a bunch of hormones flowing. Especially two or three generations of hormones all in a tight space. And a building cannot be designated an "elder facility" unless it essentially meets the requirements of a nursing home with ramps, elevators, handicap facilities, fire suppression, alarms, etc. Any landlord would want to limit the tenants to seniors, but it just isn't legal. So when you read between the lines of the landlord's requirements, keep in mind that what he is doing may just be designed to get you, a senior, and also without a family, to be his tenant.
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Old 10-15-2011, 01:33 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,487,261 times
Reputation: 29071
Quote:
Originally Posted by SelflessGene View Post
Like I suggested in the IP, people who want to argue the politics of subsidized housing can find a number of active threads in the Politics Forum where they can knock themselves out. The intention of this thread was to provide a venue for the sharing of information among folks who are exploring the practical details of obtaining subsidized housing as part of their retirement strategy.
And knowing and understanding what may limit those opportunities is a valid issue.

PS. It occurred to me that if you are considering a move to the left coast you may wish to look into Globe Mills Lofts in Sacramento, CA. They're right on a light rail line and at 62 you can receive subsidized, low cost Regional Transit monthly passes which permit unlimited riding on both the light rail and all buses. You'd have easy access to shopping, medical services, entertainment, food closets, restaurants, congregate meals and many other amenities. The lofts do provide subsidized housing.

Here's a link: http://www.loftsatglobemills.com/index2.html

Last edited by Curmudgeon; 10-15-2011 at 02:25 PM..
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Old 10-15-2011, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 18,978,143 times
Reputation: 15649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
It's been significantly used in California by the socially orchestrating and manipulating politicos, much to the distress of those people who have planned well and been able to afford nice homes. The end result has likely been a fall in overall home values. People who worked and saved for nice homes don't usually welcome low-income apartments and the troubles they often inherently bring with them in otherwise solidly middle class to affluent housing communities, nor do I blame them.
Curmudge, While I understand the concerns of those of solid income who have worked hard and saved for their nice homes (I am one), I do not see what we have to fear of low-income housing for the elderly. I have friends who live within the blocks of the University campus here, who have $400K homes, who have to put up with rioting and outrageously loud parties drawing police several times a week throughout the year. And to live in their upscale n'hoods, they do put up with this...including toilet paper and streamers strewn all over their lawns in the fall. Now these are young college-age kids, not elderly seniors bringing havoc to peace abiding homeowners.

I do not think that elderly housing is going to bring down the value of any neighborhoods. The problem is with family subsidized housing, and that is a shame for the kids who have to live there. With family housing, the buildings and grounds often become eyesores and crime is associated.

As for Gram and Gramps in senor subsidized housing, you cannot assume they did not work their butts off all their lives, nor can you assume that they did not own their own home part or most of their lives. They may even have significant assets when they go into subs. housing. From what I read, only income from assets (not the value of those assests) on top of SS and pensions are counted for eligibility. Even if all sources of income are higher (within defined ceiling), they can still qualify and will pay 30% of whatever they bring in. In fact, there are some senior housing that has, within their complexes, subsidized units alongside other buildings/units or fair-market rent. All this does is offer a nice place for people who have the option to pay less if they qualify.

Last edited by RiverBird; 10-15-2011 at 02:25 PM..
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