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Old 10-17-2011, 05:01 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
19,928 posts, read 18,947,529 times
Reputation: 33895

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As for renters...One-third of $45K, even knocking off the income tax, puts the 1/3 rent at about $1,000/month. Most places outside major desirable areas offer an abundance of rentals for that amount. Some places even include utilities for that amount of rent.

If $45K is the allowable limit, it looks like there could be a run on subsidized housing in places. I wonder if that amount is only in more pricey areas?


Where I live you can't get much for $1000/month. You will get rats and cockroaches as room mates. Then you've got to pay for heat and electricity. Rents are usually $1500-$2000 nothing included and they keep going higher because people can't afford houses anymore so they rent instead.

No one who could afford to do otherwise would want to live in subsidized housing because the apartments are very tiny--more like efficiencies--and they have no storage, no yard, no WASHING MACHINES allowed (nope, not even wringers), and are generally run down and in poor repair. They're depressing places to be.

You cannot work and better yourself so that you can move out because your rent goes up so that you break even and remain very low income. Plus working usually uses a car with all its added expenses so people actually come out worse if they work. Some folks will work into their 80s just for fun (?) but they lose money.

I don't know who decides what the eligible income guidelines are --the state or the feds.
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Old 10-17-2011, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 19,020,878 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
[i]
I don't know who decides what the eligible income guidelines are --the state or the feds.
As far as I know, the feds come up with the official income figures for the "federal poverty level" for one or more in a household. This seems to be separate from income limits for subsidized housing.

As for the subsidized housing guidelines, what I have seen shows considerable variance for income limits from one complex to another...there doesn't seem to be any formula. Maybe the public housing complexes have the same income limits across the board, and the private subsidized complexes can come up with their own (?)
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Old 10-17-2011, 05:43 PM
 
5,090 posts, read 13,567,929 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
In my readings I have found the same thing. Of course, if one's income from one's assets is really high, that may kick the applicant off eligibility. It's also important to understand that the income limit (ceiling) is not one figure across the board; what I am seeing are income ceilings all over the place. They vary considerably from one housing complex to another.
Sure income from assets is considered income and it it exceeds the limits, then your are not qualified--there is no "may" about it.

Yes, income ceilings are different for different project because they are based on many different programs and many different incentives to developers.

I do understand the confusion and I am no expert, in fact I am getting more confused. I am just pointing out that assets are not a requirement. Obviously if someone has a great deal of income generating assets, then they are not qualified if it exceeds the limits.

However, I can see people have large amounts of assets that generate no income because these assets are exempt from income. For example, one could hold a large amount of municipal bonds where interest in not taxable by federal taxes and would not be consider income under this program? or maybe I am wrong. However, I think it is all based on federal taxable gross income.

Many people today have somewhat big bank deposit that are earning very little interest, or very little income.

Some people can hold real estate that is not generating any income or receiving rental income but the income is well reduced by maintenance and depreciation of the housing asset and therefore no taxable income.

I believe that people who hold a great deal of assets would not want to live in subsidized housing. That little bit of money saved would mean nothing. It is even occurring to me, and I qualify as a low income disabled but I have my house debt free. When I starting thinking, do I want to live without my washer/dryer

I does cost me about the same, living in my house even with taxes and maintenance, as I would pay at a subsidized housing. However, my value in the house is, at this time, earning no appreciation of value. If I sold and move into subsidized housing then the money would receive would achieve some value in investment and would be considered income but not enough to restrict my eligibility. But again selling my house would increase my assets and restrict my access to many programs where assets are a determining factor, because a home is exempt under many program. It is lot to think about.

Last edited by livecontent; 10-17-2011 at 05:59 PM..
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Old 10-17-2011, 06:00 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,547,683 times
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I think there's a lesson here. Does anyone but me see it?
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Old 10-17-2011, 06:09 PM
 
5,090 posts, read 13,567,929 times
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I want you to look at this property
Denver, CO Apartments - Forest City Residential Management Grand Lowry Lofts -

Now this is on an Air Base that was closed. The whole property has been developed as a mixed used development. Pretty nice housing, do you not think

I had to do additional research and find this information which list it as Section 8 housing
NAHMA - Search for Listings

and the additional information list the qualifications:
Grand Lowry Lofts

Keep in mind the income level means those who qualify to live there and pay the full rent. It does not mean that they qualify for Section 8 subsidy. Housing can have all or a few units of Section 8 and qualify for some subsidies. I think this housing has multiple subsidies in place under different programs. I suspect when one attempts to apply there is no vacancies, as there are very few units under Section 8.

What do you all think?

Livecontent
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Old 10-17-2011, 06:15 PM
 
5,090 posts, read 13,567,929 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
I think there's a lesson here. Does anyone but me see it?
Oh, just give us a clue, so we do not have to wander around in the dark

Last edited by livecontent; 10-17-2011 at 07:03 PM..
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Old 10-17-2011, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 19,020,878 times
Reputation: 15649
Quote:
Originally Posted by livecontent View Post
I want you to look at this property
Denver, CO Apartments - Forest City Residential Management Grand Lowry Lofts -

Now this is on an Air Base that was closed. The whole property has been developed as a mixed used development. Pretty nice housing, do you not think

I had to do additional research and find this information which list it as Section 8 housing
NAHMA - Search for Listings

and the additional information list the qualifications:
Grand Lowry Lofts

Keep in mind the income level means those who qualify to live there and pay the full rent. It does not mean that they qualify for Section 8 subsidy. Housing can have all or a few units of Section 8 and qualify for some subsidies. I think this housing has multiple subsidies in place under different programs. I suspect when one attempts to apply there is no vacancies, as there are very few units under Section 8.

What do you all think?

Livecontent
Looks like the Ritz to me.

Now people of real means, and an attitude against such living arrangements, would never live in a place like this.

Nor would those who wouldn't want to live in a high-rise.

But this is a good example of restructuring and renovating useless space into something of benefit for many people. That is good urban/regional planning.
IMO, veterans should be invited to live there for free.
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Old 10-17-2011, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,746 posts, read 4,229,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
I think there's a lesson here. Does anyone but me see it?
Maybe, maybe not. Even if one decided to game the system by withdrawing a minimal amount of funds from their savings, most (if not all) of the limited income housing programs count reinvested earnings as income. So, yes, there is a "loop hole" but few folks of means would care to exploit it by deliberately avoiding earning interest on their investments.

General Requirements - Calculating Income Eligibility - Homefront - Training - Affordable Housing - CPD - HUD
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Old 10-17-2011, 07:02 PM
 
5,090 posts, read 13,567,929 times
Reputation: 6928
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenora View Post
Maybe, maybe not. Even if one decided to game the system by withdrawing a minimal amount of funds from their savings, most (if not all) of the limited income housing programs count reinvested earnings as income. So, yes, there is a "loop hole" but few folks of means would care to exploit it by deliberately avoiding earning interest on their investments.

General Requirements - Calculating Income Eligibility - Homefront - Training - Affordable Housing - CPD - HUD
I doubt very seriously, people who have reinvested earnings are in the category of low income and qualify for Section 8.

The most interesting information that you provide indicates:

"While the IRS uses the term "adjusted gross income", this amount is considered "annual income" for the purposes of the HOME Program."

This link you provided is about the HOME program, is that a name for the overall funding of home ownership, buying and rental, or just buying?

Being an working Attorney, I am sure you can understand this issue better than I.

Livecontent
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Old 10-17-2011, 07:53 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,746 posts, read 4,229,892 times
Reputation: 6867
Quote:
Originally Posted by livecontent View Post
I doubt very seriously, people who have reinvested earnings are in the category of low income and qualify for Section 8.

Not so fast. Assuming that assets really don't count (clearly I have trouble accepting this assumption), consider the following: If I receive $1000/month in Social Security benefits and hold $500,000 in U.S. Treasury bonds (currently earning about 2% interest), I would qualify for subsidized housing. Better yet, I could have $1 million in bonds, little or no Social Security, and still qualify for subsidized housing.

The most interesting information that you provide indicates:

"While the IRS uses the term "adjusted gross income", this amount is considered "annual income" for the purposes of the HOME Program."

That's because HUD also uses the term adjusted annual income in its calculations.

This link you provided is about the HOME program, is that a name for the overall funding of home ownership, buying and rental, or just buying? It includes rentals.

Being an working Attorney, I am sure you can understand this issue better than I. B.S.

Livecontent
Gimme a break. You know that I know that you are perfectly able to analyze any proposed legislation, regulation or statute out there. Have fun exploring the site.

Last edited by lenora; 10-17-2011 at 07:56 PM.. Reason: cleaned up
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