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Old 10-15-2011, 08:11 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
28,497 posts, read 62,182,463 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SelflessGene View Post
Market value rents are of no concern to me since I am focused exclusively on HUD-subsidized income-based projects.
Well, it should be of concern to you...
because that is the best indicator of the sort of neighbors and neighborhood you're looking at.

Quote:
The only variable that really concerns me is what, if any, "amenities" (read "utilities") are included in that basic payment. I've seen several that include heat, gas, ac and sometimes even electricity.
None of these "amenities" are included in any deal; at best, you'll find a situation where they are not itemized separately on the rent bill. But you can be very certain that whatever these costs may be...
they are being passed right on through to the customer.

Quote:
I would prefer to live in gentrified areas that include mandated low-income housing.
I'm not aware of this concept working anywhere in the US.
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Old 10-15-2011, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Paradise Lost
291 posts, read 409,861 times
Reputation: 207
Default Cardinal Points

Quote:
Originally Posted by livecontent View Post
...The cities of upstate and western New York have collapsed in decay and neglect...

I think you are very wrong, there are many subsidized housing all over the country. Just check that link on affordable housing that I gave you. Now I cannot speak much for other areas of the country, but I can speak with some authority on the Denver area--and there are many places.

Denver and most suburbs are very well served by public transit so one can find good walkable neighborhoods where a senior could live without a car. Not owning a car is a big savings for those with low income.
On the first point I can only speak of Rochester. I went back to my home town a few years ago and it still looks good to me. Also I'm thinking of the social safety nets that exist in states like New York as compared to the South and West (excluding California of course). In New York I would qualify for Medicaid (which I could really use) right now, whereas here in Florida I would have to wait until I'm 65 (or until 2014 if ObamaCare goes through). The Rocky Mountain states seem to be equally stingy. I didn't want to get into all these peripheral matters in this thread since I wish to remain focused on the topic of subsidized housing for the prematurely, unexpectedly and forcibly retired who are lucky enough to be eligible for early retirement social security since that is probably the only way that many can expect to keep a roof over their heads.

Having said that, I will definitely still check out Denver. I lived in Albuquerque for over a decade and love the West but didn't see it as a viable option.

Couldn't agree more on your final point. Owning a car is a big pain in the ass. I've gone for long periods of my life without one when the situation permitted.
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Old 10-15-2011, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Paradise Lost
291 posts, read 409,861 times
Reputation: 207
Default The Best-Laid Plans ...

By the way, if anyone is wondering why I'm still writing and not packing to leave for Detroit it's because I've run into a possible complication which may be of interest to others attempting to secure subsidized housing in another state.

The project manager I was speaking with failed to inform me at the start that the photo id required for application needs to be a Michigan driver's license and my Florida license won't do. (This only came out when I spoke to her supervisor later on.) This, of course, is crazy since I can't get a Michigan license without a Michigan address and I can't apply for a Michigan address until I have a Michigan license. This does not seem to be a state-mandated residency issue since other Detroit facilities have told me they would accept my Florida license for the photo id. I think it's just a matter of arbitrary weirdness. The supervisor said she'd check into the matter and call me back but she never did so it may be the've blown me off.

So the search goes on.
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Old 10-15-2011, 09:13 AM
 
5,090 posts, read 13,548,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post

"I would prefer to live in gentrified areas that include mandated low-income housing."


I'm not aware of this concept working anywhere in the US.
The concept mandated low-income housing is very much a part of gentrified areas. You will see that when in-filled developments are build in older areas that are being gentrified. Government entitites in supporting these developments with incentives require a certain set aside for low income rentals and/or market rate housing and/or senior subsidized housing.

In Denver, a new airport was built. The old site, Stapleton, sat in the middle of a badly deteriorated area in Denver. This large development has a number of mandated low income housing.

"...The Stapleton Affordable Housing Plan calls for 10% of for sale homes and 20% of rental homes to be income qualified..."

Stapleton's Affordable Housing Program | Stapleton Denver

This link to the City and County of Denver will give you an idea of what Denver is doing to sponser subsidized housing in gentrified neighborhoods. Lincoln Park is an example of the older type of housing projects within the city. It happens to be adjacent to a new rail station and is very near to the fast growing and appreciating areas, near the increasing vibrancy of Downtown Denver. The City is going to demolish this project and built a mixed income development. This is just one example of many that Denver is doing.
http://www.denverhousing.org/develop...s/default.aspx

Gentrified does not only mean rehabilation of only individual housing--it also means developments. Certainly, Stapleton is an example of a large gentrified development. There are many more larger and smaller developments all around Denver that have been finished and are being planned.

One of the best set-asides for low income housing is near the rail station that are being built all over the Denver area with the expansion of public transit. One of the isssues with these new rail station is that the housing around them become very expensive, in old and new areas, because they become valued for Transit Oriented Developments (TODs). These developments target the higher income. Older areas near rail stations become gentrified and not affordable for the disadvantaged. Colorado has a program set up to buy some of the land and built moderate to low income housing, not only in near rail station but other developing gentrified neighborhoods where cost for housing is rising. Home

Affordable housing coming to TOD site | Inside Real Estate News

Urban Land Conservancy Preserves Affordable Housing in Denver's Santa Fe Arts District -... -- DENVER, Aug. 25, 2011 /PRNewswire/ --

We also see private developers who get incentives building low income housing, as in this case with a low income senior housing right next to a rail station
Affordable senior housing being built next to Yale Light Rail Station along T-REX | Inside Real Estate News

Denver is not unique. These types of development are occurring all over the nation. Denver has an advantage that it is becoming a very desireable city to live, as people are again seeing the advantages of living in a well designed City. Demand is there; population is increasing and land does not sit abandoned for long in Denver to decay.

Livecontent

Last edited by livecontent; 10-15-2011 at 09:48 AM..
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Old 10-15-2011, 09:47 AM
 
Location: too far from the sea
19,839 posts, read 18,861,423 times
Reputation: 33746
Quote:
Originally Posted by livecontent View Post
The concept mandated low-income housing is very much a part of gentrified areas. You will see that when in-filled developments are build in older areas that are being gentrified. Government entitites in supporting these developments with incentives require a certain set aside for low income rentals and/or market rate housing and/or senior subsidized housing.

In Denver, a new airport was built. The old site, Stapleton, sat in the middle of a badly deteriorated area in Denver. This large development has a number of mandated low income housing.

"...The Stapleton Affordable Housing Plan calls for 10% of for sale homes and 20% of rental homes to be income qualified..."

Stapleton's Affordable Housing Program | Stapleton Denver

This link to the City and County of Denver will give you an idea of what Denver is doing to sponser subsidized housing in gentrified neighborhoods. Lincoln Park is an example of the older type of housing projects within the city. It happens to be adjacent to a new rail station and is very near to the fast growing and appreciating areas near the increasing vibrancy of Downtown Denver. The City is going to demolish this project and built a mixed income development. This is just one example of many that Denver is doing.
South Lincoln Redevelopment

Gentrified does not only mean rehabilation of only individual housing--it also means developments. Certainly, Stapleton is an example of a large gentrified development. There are many more larger and smaller developments all around Denver that have been finished and are being planned.

One of the best set-asides for low income housing is near the rail station that are being built all over the Denver area with the expansion of public transit. One of the isssues with these new rail station is that the housing around them become very expensive, in old and new areas, because they become valued for Transit Oriented Developments (TODs). These developments target the higher income. Older areas near rail stations become gentrified and not affordable for the disadvantaged. Colorado has a program set up to buy some of the land and built moderate to low income housing, not only in near rail station but other developing gentrified neighborhoods where cost for housing is rising. Home

Affordable housing coming to TOD site | Inside Real Estate News

Urban Land Conservancy Preserves Affordable Housing in Denver's Santa Fe Arts District -... -- DENVER, Aug. 25, 2011 /PRNewswire/ --

We also see private developers who get incentives building low income housing, as in this case with a low income senior housing right next to a rail station
Affordable senior housing being built next to Yale Light Rail Station along T-REX | Inside Real Estate News

Denver is not unique. These types of development are occurring all over the nation.

Livecontent
Same thing in Massachusetts. A certain percentage of housing in each town or city has to be low income or (the town gets penalized).

Also, to answer a previous question, the subsidized rent does include utilities. The rent equals 30% of your total income if utilities are included and 25% if you have to pay your own.

I'm not saying the apartments are anything special, usually they're in run down old buildings but sometimes you do find one of those expensive new buildings that got permission to build upon the promise to make some of their apartments available to low income people.
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Old 10-15-2011, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Paradise Lost
291 posts, read 409,861 times
Reputation: 207
Default 3 Items

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
1. Well, it should be of concern to you...
because that is the best indicator of the sort of neighbors and neighborhood you're looking at.

2. None of these "amenities" are included in any deal; at best, you'll find a situation where they are not itemized separately on the rent bill. But you can be very certain that whatever these costs may be...
they are being passed right on through to the customer.

3. I'm not aware of this concept working anywhere in the US.
1. Right now I'm living, as fate would have it, in a very upscale neighborhood where I can see plenty of yachts and swimming pools from where I'm sitting. The neighbors are almost exclusively AHs.

2. I've spent days pouring over hundreds of listings and I know whereof I speak. In an income-based arrangement what is and what is not included in that 30%-of-income figure (which for any particular individual with a fixed income is likewise fixed) is explicitely spelled out.

3. I suggest you read livecontent's description of the the situation in Denver above. I've seen this same concept expressed many times in posts and articles. Over in the Politics Forum you will find upper-income folks blowing their fuses over the fact that city planners and officials are encouraging these mixed-income projects in their tony Shanga La's. If the developers want cheap federal loans they have to dance to the tune of "de-ghettoization". Does it "work"? I don't know - but it's the law.

Last edited by SelflessGene; 10-15-2011 at 10:00 AM..
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Old 10-15-2011, 09:58 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
28,497 posts, read 62,182,463 times
Reputation: 32182
Quote:
Originally Posted by livecontent View Post
The concept mandated low-income housing is very much a part of gentrified areas. You will see that when in-filled developments...
Thanks for the data.

I'm aware of the concept, that attempts have been made toward the end, and have seen it work outside the US...
My point was (and remains as I said) that I've just not seen it actually work here.
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Old 10-15-2011, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Arizona
419 posts, read 658,079 times
Reputation: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by SelflessGene View Post
By the way, if anyone is wondering why I'm still writing and not packing to leave for Detroit it's because I've run into a possible complication which may be of interest to others attempting to secure subsidized housing in another state.

The project manager I was speaking with failed to inform me at the start that the photo id required for application needs to be a Michigan driver's license and my Florida license won't do. (This only came out when I spoke to her supervisor later on.) This, of course, is crazy since I can't get a Michigan license without a Michigan address and I can't apply for a Michigan address until I have a Michigan license. This does not seem to be a state-mandated residency issue since other Detroit facilities have told me they would accept my Florida license for the photo id. I think it's just a matter of arbitrary weirdness. The supervisor said she'd check into the matter and call me back but she never did so it may be the've blown me off.

So the search goes on.
Besides Denver, you may want to look at Pittsburgh. There are quite a few subsidized high rise buildings for seniors in the downtown area.

Pittsburgh treats their seniors very well. In fact, the bulk of the revenue from lottery sales go to benefit the needs of seniors.

I do not know if they accept out of state applications.

Good luck! I know you will eventually find the perfect place for you.
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Old 10-15-2011, 10:26 AM
 
5,090 posts, read 13,548,911 times
Reputation: 6928
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Thanks for the data.

I'm aware of the concept, that attempts have been made toward the end, and have seen it work outside the US...
My point was (and remains as I said) that I've just not seen it actually work here.
The examples of data that I give you are not just concepts but also fully successful subsidized housing in gentrified areas that have been operating for years. There are many such completed projects all over the Denver metro area. There were also projects built well before the word gentrified become part of the language and they were in redevelopment projects in the early and mid-part of the last century.

I can understand you not seeing them. When I was young and working at good jobs, I never noticed all the types of issues for the elderly, the disabled, those of low income and those with severe livelong disabilities.

When I become sick and disabled and took the handicapped bus, I was shocked by the stops that where made at locations of clinics/housing/schools for the severely disabled that I never noticed

Then I become aware of senior housing that I drove by often and I never gave it a thought as I was young, smart and lived my life in my own inflated self-importance

Livecontent
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Old 10-15-2011, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Paradise Lost
291 posts, read 409,861 times
Reputation: 207
Default Progressive Pittsburgh

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCBaker View Post
1. ...you may want to look at Pittsburgh. There are quite a few subsidized high rise buildings for seniors in the downtown area.

2. I do not know if they accept out of state applications.
1. Yeah, I was thinking about Pittsburgh. Especially last night as I was watching the movie Three Days. (That's some jail they got there.)

2. I don't know if residency is an issue or not. Folks with Section 8 Housing Vouchers can live wherever they want and move as often as their leases allow. I don't know why HUD-backed projects should be any different in this regard (accept for the moving part since the subsidy is attached to the unit rather than the individual). None of the facilities I've contacted have batted an eyelash when I asked them to send the application forms to Florida. After all, it's federal money that makes it all possible.

Last edited by SelflessGene; 10-15-2011 at 11:11 AM..
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