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Old 10-16-2011, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,697 posts, read 49,495,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbill View Post
Maybe the 47% of our population who do not pay taxes will start contributing.
Yes, we must hammer folks with $10k/year pensions. Having so much money I am certain provides them luxury accommodations.
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Old 10-16-2011, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Florida
19,838 posts, read 19,937,680 times
Reputation: 23280
I doubt anyone would object at all to a truely fair tax if we were not well aware of what a great deal of tax money is going to.
As ridiculous as this 9/9/9 plan is, why isn't it at the very least 9/9/9/9 with the last 9 representing the reduction in government spending?
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Old 10-16-2011, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Florida
19,838 posts, read 19,937,680 times
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Answering my own question....because we all know that the first cuts would be for things that will affect the 99% anyway, not the monied (personal and corporate)
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Old 10-16-2011, 08:26 AM
 
29,812 posts, read 34,900,894 times
Reputation: 11730
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Which would certainly slam many pensioners.





So if you invested your savings into the stock market, and lived off the dividends, you would be tax-free?

I am certain that in the future many workers would dump their tax-able pensions, in favor of mutual funds which would be tax-free.
And that would take a big burden off of the government and corporations that help fund those pensions. Sorta like the Chilean model? Wow a self funded retirement with government incentives in retirement. A true winner. Wow the needed rated of return would decrease since your withdrawals would be tax free. You make a great point as without having to provide pensions government spending would naturally decrease and the debt would be drawn down!
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Old 10-16-2011, 08:32 AM
 
9,222 posts, read 9,292,231 times
Reputation: 28913
Quote:
And that would take a big burden off of the government and corporations that help fund those pensions. Sorta like the Chilean model? Wow a self funded retirement with government incentives in retirement. A true winner. Wow the needed rated of return would decrease since your withdrawals would be tax free.
I don't want to misunderstand you. Are you advocating replacing Social Security with some kind of self-funded retirement plan? I could see this as a supplement to Social Security. As a replacement? You must be kidding.

Case in Point.

We have a 401K plan that I just laugh at. We've had it for twenty plus years. We followed all the standard advice about investing. We never taken anything out of it. We've actually increased the amount going way above the point where the employer matches contributions.

Net result? After twenty plus years a sum of under $100,000. Why? We've had the misfortune to be investing during a time when there have been at least three recessions that I can count--including the latest mega recession.

Social Security may not pay much, but its a defined benefit. Its guaranteed. That's why no private investment plan that relies on private investments will ever be a realistic replacement. One day the people in Chile will find that out too.
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Old 10-16-2011, 08:42 AM
 
29,812 posts, read 34,900,894 times
Reputation: 11730
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I don't want to misunderstand you. Are you advocating replacing Social Security with some kind of self-funded retirement plan? I could see this as a supplement to Social Security. As a replacement? You must be kidding.

Case in Point.

We have a 401K plan that I just laugh at. We've had it for twenty plus years. We followed all the standard advice about investing. We never taken anything out of it. We've actually increased the amount going way above the point where the employer matches contributions.

Net result? After twenty plus years a sum of under $100,000. Why? We've had the misfortune to be investing during a time when there have been at least three recessions that I can count--including the latest mega recession.

Social Security may not pay much, but its a defined benefit. Its guaranteed. That's why no private investment plan that relies on private investments will ever be a realistic replacement. One day the people in Chile will find that out too.
Even if you had put the money under a mattress a contribution of 6K a year would have left you with 120K tax free. Part of the implication of what I wrote was the tax free accumulation and draw down. Also I was pointing out the natural consequences of Forest Bees statement. I am sure that Mathjak and Robyn amongst others would tell you that your investment strategy is what yielded your results. Part of how anyone would feel about this is where they fall on the income/taxation spectrum. Remember high earners will never get back what they and their employers put in and that is a chunk of change. SS in practice is a redistribution of working wealth from the more affluent to the less affluent to be paid out during their senior years. That is why so much of the sales pitch is that it is YOUR money and if you die at 50 it is there for your grown heirs unlike SS unless it is a spouse or they are disabled.
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Old 10-16-2011, 09:16 AM
 
2,921 posts, read 3,553,748 times
Reputation: 4111
Too bad so many experts are busy posting on the internet rather than running the country. Hey, all you gotta do is blah, blah, blah. The only reason we're not doing what I tell 'em is because everybody except me is stupid.
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Old 10-16-2011, 09:24 AM
 
29,812 posts, read 34,900,894 times
Reputation: 11730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes View Post
Too bad so many experts are busy posting on the internet rather than running the country. Hey, all you gotta do is blah, blah, blah. The only reason we're not doing what I tell 'em is because everybody except me is stupid.
Folks are doing what democracy allows them to do and that is advocate for what they believe is in their self interest. In some case like defense that self interest is very much a collective interest. In other cases it may or may not be. Are you challenging the exercise of this freedom in the new age of technology? Are you suggesting that folks from around the country and the world not convene in forums on the Internet to discuss and try to influence? How should this discussion play out in the modern age?
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Old 10-16-2011, 09:32 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
28,546 posts, read 62,287,227 times
Reputation: 32297
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Are you challenging the exercise of this freedom in the new age of technology?
I suspect he is referring to the circle jerk aspect of it.
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Old 10-16-2011, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
16,133 posts, read 20,841,272 times
Reputation: 8293
As it turns out Cain is just another Shill of the Koch Brothers. What choice do you get when they own all of the candidates. Get in Line and do what you are told
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