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Old 11-05-2011, 06:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daydreamin71 View Post
Well, clearly, there are lots of details that would need to be worked out. I don't think NEG thought her idea was ready to be implemented as-is. But I have found that honest poor people (of which there are many) would feel a whole lot better about the funds they are receiving if they were able to work for them. And so would the taxpayers who generously provide those funds.

And what does the south, vs the north have to do with it? Are you saying the south bands together and digs themselves out of natural disasters completely? Of course not, because the scale of those disasters is too big. So why would you expect New England to do this?
Has anyone done any research comparing state and local taxes in the North East and those of the southern states? Services come with a price tag and the transfer of wealth from individuals limits the ability of individuals to provide for THEIR retirement needs. Seems like some people believe they need four wheel drive and a their own generator in case of weather emergencies and others don't. We are talking about wealth transfer and the ability of people to secure their retirement years based on the fruit of their individual effort. I am not talking about the top 1% but the 50% who pay taxes and write often in this forum and are concerned about their retirement years. Should they not have the right to be able to receive the fruit of their effort or should they increasingly be required to share more of their effort even at their own peril?
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Old 11-05-2011, 06:15 PM
 
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When affluent people flee high taxed areas upon retirement both their skills and finances go with them.
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Old 11-05-2011, 06:20 PM
 
Location: SW MO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
When affluent people flee high taxed areas upon retirement both their skills and finances go with them.
Same with middle-of-the-roaders, aka: the middle class. When they go and take their incomes with them it's the same effect. But some states seem hell-bent-for-leather to make staying financially unattractive. Those are likely the ones with the most decaying infrastructures, failing schools and highest crime rates.

Oops! I just described from whence we came.
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Old 11-05-2011, 06:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Has anyone done any research comparing state and local taxes in the North East and those of the southern states? Services come with a price tag and the transfer of wealth from individuals limits the ability of individuals to provide for THEIR retirement needs. Seems like some people believe they need four wheel drive and a their own generator in case of weather emergencies and others don't. We are talking about wealth transfer and the ability of people to secure their retirement years based on the fruit of their individual effort. I am not talking about the top 1% but the 50% who pay taxes and write often in this forum and are concerned about their retirement years. Should they not have the right to be able to receive the fruit of their effort or should they increasingly be required to share more of their effort even at their own peril?
So I think NEG was trying to say that she feels that perhaps some of the relief efforts (services) her taxes are going for could be covered, at least in part, by allowing some of those individuals receiving financial benefits from the state to be able to work for their benefits. Working for a paycheck does not strike me as a bad thing, no matter how you want to spin it. IMHO, it is, in part, the notion that able bodied people are entitled benefits, without working for them, that got us to the point where retirees have to make more sacrifices.

Her statement was an example of a retiree (one of the 50% on this forum, that you mention) stating how they would like some of the fruits of their labor used.
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Old 11-05-2011, 06:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daydreamin71 View Post
So I think NEG was trying to say that she feels that perhaps some of the relief efforts (services) her taxes are going for could be covered, at least in part, by allowing some of those individuals receiving financial benefits from the state to be able to work for their benefits. Working for a paycheck does not strike me as a bad thing, no matter how you want to spin it. IMHO, it is, in part, the notion that able bodied people are entitled benefits, without working for them, that got us to the point where retirees have to make more sacrifices.

Her statement was an example of a retiree (one of the 50% on this forum, that you mention) stating how they would like some of the fruits of their labor used.
I understand that and the question is should that be a self selecting decision via charity or a government imposed decision by those representing the recipients of that wealth transfer. This is especially true at the state and local level. Forget the federal level and focus on state and local taxation and the shifting changes in state and local demographics especially as many of us transplant away. That is a serious issue and question moving forward. Remember we have cities on the brink if not actually in bankruptcy. Consider Harrisburg Pennsylvania which is also the state capital. Think about it the state capital bankrupt because of the scarcity of income/wealth producers living there. Certainly the local issues in a New England College town and a metropolitan area can present different financing/taxation challenges. Some high tax areas are desirable and targets for transplants and others are worthy of transplanting from. The consequences of each are considerable.
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Old 11-05-2011, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
The irony is that when these types of natural disasters hit areas of the south folks get together and help each other out and begin to work together to make repairs. I guess it is a regional thing to want people hired instead of communities banding together.

You haven't been around many disasters, have you?
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Near a river
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
When affluent people flee high taxed areas upon retirement both their skills and finances go with them.
And sooner or later the fleeing affluent want the amenities they had in their former location, and sooner or later their new place gets discovered, and hence all the growth and the costs with that.
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Near a river
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daydreamin71 View Post
So I think NEG was trying to say that she feels that perhaps some of the relief efforts (services) her taxes are going for could be covered, at least in part, by allowing some of those individuals receiving financial benefits from the state to be able to work for their benefits. Working for a paycheck does not strike me as a bad thing, no matter how you want to spin it. IMHO, it is, in part, the notion that able bodied people are entitled benefits, without working for them, that got us to the point where retirees have to make more sacrifices.

Her statement was an example of a retiree (one of the 50% on this forum, that you mention) stating how they would like some of the fruits of their labor used.
Yes I would rather know that the taxes I pay are not going down the drain for welfare for able-bodied working adults who need a job (who have found out that they gain more by not working than working), or (before I forget to mention this) down the drain for exorbitant retirement benefits for overpaid and underworked state and town employees (about which I have a good deal of firsthand experience).

When I was working for nonprofits I worked many more hours past the hours I was paid to work, partly to ensure the success of my companies but also to ensure the security of my own position. Did I see any state or town employees volunteering one hour of their time out there on the streets helping (for instance, the elderly) in this emergency?

The WPA put people to work. Why are we giving out so much welfare without any expectation of the recipients giving anything back? Again, there is no incentive to work because the benefits are better than getting a low-wage unbenefitted job. Cut the crap out of the federal budget and put that money to creating jobs through mandatory training programs. The government should not be subsidizing corporations, banks, or able bodied individuals. Assistance, at times. Subsidizing--how long can this go on?
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Old 11-05-2011, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 18,991,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
The irony is that when these types of natural disasters hit areas of the south folks get together and help each other out and begin to work together to make repairs. I guess it is a regional thing to want people hired instead of communities banding together. Also the poor aren't always distributed equally and where the disaster is. Also with so much of welfare being child based who will take care of them and where?
It is a practical thing to utilize people out of work and tie in training programs for our own infrastructure work. You are bringing in a personal perception that has nothing to do with this.

But, since you bring it up....People of South are not the only local heroes. People of North, South, East, and West are always ready to pitch in and help their neighbors; mine helped me, I checked on some elders, and many individuals with trucks were out there. However, local everyday citizens do not have access to the kinds of heavy equipment and materials that are used in dealing with massive emergencies, nor are they trained in emergency management and control.

Each and every city and town should have a comprehensive disaster plan that includes highly supervised crews spontaneously brought in from all sectors, notably from the sector of the unemployed. Contrary to popular opinion, most able-bodied people want to work, they want to pitch in and contribute to their communities. Many on the rolls want jobs. The problem is, it doesn't "pay" anymore to get a modest job when unemployed; federal and state support is much more lucrative, sometimes over generations.
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Old 11-05-2011, 09:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
You haven't been around many disasters, have you?
Yeah I have been and I know my neighbors responded and were prepared. I learned a lot from Irene. In North Carolina there are not many pieces of snow removal in the state and we are told to be prepared to be without power for a week in ice storms, hurricanes and tornadoes. My neighbors who are from here have generators and some of the transplants do. Roads are not cleared other than major roads and most cross roads are untouched. Power lines go down her like elsewhere and things shut down but folks are prepared. We got hit pretty hard by Irene. In my four years as a transplant I have learned about the difference in government expectations in another region. As evidenced by the current political dialog in our country not everyone wants government to solve their problems or expect them to solve others problems. It is not just where we are now in government intrusion but where some elected officials want to take us. Increased contributions and decreased benefits for many. While others see no increase in expected contributions( not that they were) and benefits remaining the same.

Last edited by TuborgP; 11-05-2011 at 10:09 PM..
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