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Interesting thread. They made a movie that predicts more of the same for our country. Its called "Idiocracy". Very funny but very prophetic. It also means retirement planning is a "hold your nose and guess strategy." Who knows what the future will be like, but its unlikely to improve over what we have today.
The sad reality is these were not investments in the private sector of these countries but in their sovereign debt. Their governments can't survive without being able to borrow and neither can ours. One of the reasons to depress interest rates is to keep government borrowing down and to make it easier to roll over old debt.That may help government to spend but not individuals young or old to grown their retirement nest egg.
Utter nonsense, Argentina is still there and bankrupt Iceland still provides its citizens with better public services than the US. Individuals chose to invest overseas that is their problem, just like banks. I wish I could get 5 or 10% on my investment but I dare not take the chance
Utter nonsense, Argentina is still there and bankrupt Iceland still provides its citizens with better public services than the US. Individuals chose to invest overseas that is their problem, just like banks. I wish I could get 5 or 10% on my investment but I dare not take the chance
Yeah ok, did you respond in the context of the post I was responding to? So America you read it here spend on there is not day of reckoning for doing it as a country. Hmmm did you consider banks that invested overseas or companies trying to sell goods in countries that are in a deep recession as a result of their collective issues. So the market reaction to the 10 year Italian bond going over 7% was a non needed reaction?
New Jersey’s high taxes drive out wealthy residents, slowing the state’s recovery, said Charles Steindel, the treasury department’s chief economist.
Property, income and estate taxes are the top reasons people leave, said Steindel, who released a study of federal tax data and a survey of financial advisers today at an economic forum in Trenton organized by the treasury department.
Governor Chris Christie, a first-term Republican, has twice vetoed measures sponsored by Democrats that would have raised income taxes on residents earning $1 million or more. Senate President Stephen Sweeney, the state’s highest-ranking Democratic lawmaker, said last week his party would push again for passage of a so-called millionaire’s tax.
Not all agree with the study so read the article if interested.
The states could get a lot of federal money for infrastructure and urban planning if they were not mired and sinking in their own debt. The states could be creating jobs then.
Consider this scenario: during the massive power failure this past week in greater New England, we were in a weeklong state of declared emergency.
There are not enough state workers or utility company employees to deal with the massive (and I mean massive, on every single street you drive down in the affected states) numbers of trees and partial trees, and utility wires, down. The National Guard, which has better things to attend to, had to be called in to help with the cleanup.
Those among the able-bodied who are receiving state welfare could be receiving wage-work under the supervision of trained work crews, cleaning up this unbelievable mess everywhere. (Hey, they do get prisoners to clean up the highways, why not those on the dole?) These adults could have been dispatched onto the streets for traffic control and neighborhood patroling, very much needed at a time like this (think of even worse disasters such as Katrina). These welfare-receiving able-bodied people could be hired temporarily toward a training program that gives them a job in the U.S. infrastructure rebuilding effort (oh, forgot, those contracts have apparently been assigned to Chinese contractors....in China ).
A lot of utility companies have reciprocal pacts with other utility companies to hit the road and help with repairs if there's a big problem caused by something like a storm. I know that utility companies from outside the "Irene area" helped out after Irene (including crews from Florida). Did that not happen with the recent storm? And if not - why not?
I have always thought it was a great idea to have people "work for their welfare". Obviously - they can't do all jobs (especially those that require skills they don't have - and - believe it or not - cleaning up after a storm and repairing power lines are pretty skilled - often dangerous - jobs). But why not other jobs - at lower than prevailing wages. Like minimum wage for staffing a library desk at a library that has reduced hours due to budget cuts. I guess one answer is that public employees who work for higher wages wouldn't allow it. And also that there are people who will work cheaper. Like prisoners. Who are doing more and more "dirty" jobs these days - everything from picking up roadside garbage to picking crops (prisoners are much in demand in certain parts of the country for the latter due to crackdowns on illegal immigrants).
Also - you run into the problem that a lot of welfare recipients are very young mothers with multiple kids - the disabled - etc. I don't think the welfare system today is particularly generous with able-bodied workers - especially men - with time on their hands.
When it comes to these able-bodied workers - most aren't are welfare today. They either have been or are still receiving unemployment benefits. If they're still receiving unemployment benefits - that is often more than they could earn in lesser "make work" jobs. At least in Florida - a lot of these workers were in not very highly skilled construction jobs (or the "skills" were very construction specific - like being a good tile person). These jobs aren't coming back anytime soon IMO. And since a lot of these people are over 40 - I don't know what we can do for them (although I have thought about the subject a lot).
To put the skills issue in some context - my housekeeper's husband is more or less in this category. And he is trying to make some extra money by helping her with some physically demanding tasks these days. I had him strip my floors last week - and he couldn't figure out whether a 1 in 4 part dilution of a floor product was stronger than 2 parts in 6. I had to mix the stuff myself.
We may have to deal with high levels of structural unemployment for a long time because of this. And our best hope is making sure younger people stay in school long enough - and learn enough - to become productive members of society in the 21st century. But - at least here in Florida - we don't seem to be going in that direction.
Those of us in or near retirement age should like to see those in younger generations being better and brighter than we were. But that is not happening. Robyn
And sooner or later the fleeing affluent want the amenities they had in their former location, and sooner or later their new place gets discovered, and hence all the growth and the costs with that.
What amenities are those? Note that I do not live in a place that is totally undiscovered or dirt cheap - and that the housing bust has put our super high growth trajectory on a more even keel. Which is fine by me. I think the most important issue in our county is schools. They have always been one of the prime attractions for new families moving here. They were good when we first moved here - and they're still good (for Florida schools - not by the standards of where - for example - my husband went to school - Bergen County NJ). Robyn
I hate to tell you this, but the expenses of repairing the electric grid after a storm are mostly borne by FEMA and other government agencies. If it were up to just the utilities alone, not much would get done in a timely fashion as most don't have the resources to fix that much broken, nor the money. Outside help has to be summoned and somebody has to pay for that. The same is true for debris removal. Remember those limbs you piled up at the curb after Irene? Who do you think paid for their removal?
As for snow removal? You're right! We could dispense with all those snow plows and salt shakers parked over there at the county maintenance barn because we can do it ourselves, without any help from government. Why....I expect it wouldn't take the citizens of New Jersey more than all winter to shovel the snow off the Garden State Parkway.
Gosh - what do you do - just make this stuff up?
After Hurricane Andrew (which I lived through) - FPL paid to repair the grid - and then the costs (direct and indirect) were passed through to customers):
As for the vegetable matter storm debris - it was picked up by our local garbage guys - and firms that got contracts to remove it (local garbage guys weren't in a position to remove tons of huge trees that came down). And most of that debris was mulched and dumped in the Crandon Park (big beach) parking lot. After offers of free mulch didn't reduce the pile by 1 inch - the county and the EPA fought for months about what to do with it. The EPA refused to issue a burn permit - said it would pollute the air. Finally - when the stuff started to rot and stink - the county gave a finger to the EPA - set the stuff on fire - and it was gone in a few days. That was the end of that.
Just FWIW - we didn't have a problem with tree removal at our condo. Every single piece of landscaping washed into Biscayne Bay and out into the Atlantic Ocean and was never seen again (at least not by us).
There were other kinds of debris - like pool screen enclosures. And lots of guys came around offering to haul away your debris for free (because some of the debris - like aluminum - had recycling value).
If FEMA takes care of your snow removal - please let those of us in Florida know how we can get it to pay for hurricane debris removal . Robyn
You're right. That single Mom with 3 kids under foot should be able to get that limb hanging above her roof down all by herself. If she doesn't know how, that's her fault. Or, the 87 year old man on oxygen shouldn't have an trouble getting rid of those trees down in his yard or lying in his bedroom. If he can't, too bad for him. Maybe that single Mom across the street will come help.
Darn lazy bums. Just lying around waiting for someone else to do their work.
Gosh - one thing we agree on. Chainsaws are dangerous - and unless you're skilled with one - a skill people like me and my husband have never acquired - it's a bad idea to try one out for the first time after a storm.
OTOH - if you don't know how to use a chainsaw - or can't afford a good tree service - people like your single mom with 3 kids or the 87 year old guy on oxygen - it's also a bad idea to live in a place where big trees can present problems. Like falling on your house - catching on fire - or falling on your power lines (especially if you're disabled and need electricity to run things that keep you alive). Robyn
The OP's opinion seems based on a premise. That premise is that there are exactly two groups of people in society.
The first group is hard working and industrious. It got where it did purely because of effort. Matters like timing, racial discrimination, sexual discrimination, or good health played little or no role in the success or good fortune of this group. This group was able to save and supposedly now lives in fear of seeing its savings "taxed away" by a spendthrift and ruinous government.
The second group had all the advantages that the first group did, but chose to squander them. This group is composed of people who hate work, wanted to play all their lives, and made a deliberate decision to not put anything aside for retirement. Now, as old age approaches this group is trying to use both fair means and foul to take the money from the first group to subsidize their own lazy lifestyle.
This sounds more like a fable or a thirty minute t.v. show than real life.
The people coming down the pike are not in as good financial shape for retirement as your generation for a lot of reasons. Perhaps, the one that is most commonly ignored one is the lack of good jobs that include defined retirement benefit plans as part of the compensation package. These have been totally eliminated in over half the workplaces in this country during the last thirty years. This wasn't much of an issue for people sixty and older. When you were in the workforce, such jobs existed in relative abundance.
Oh you can make all the arguments: "We need to cut government spending". "These people need to learn to save". "Financial planning isn't taught in the schools".
The problem is almost all those young people look around and they see the baby boomers and those older than them retiring on nice comfortable pensions. They see the way that we have decimated Medicare by our unwillingness to raise taxes to pay for it, to ration the care that is least necessary and most expensive, and what I will call our "general irresponsibility" as a group. Its a poor example, we've set. Much of the ineptness is our own.
My wife works for local government. She is fortunate enough to have one of the few remaining defined benefit plans left in this area. That plus our social security, plus some limited savings, plus a 401K plan that has never come through as promised guarantees we'll have a decent retirement. Guess what? They have now changed the system and all the young people (the new hires) aren't going to get nearly as generous a retirement. Most of their retirement will be based on 401K and only a small percentage will be a defined benefit.
Hi Mark - It's easy to sound "liberal" like you do when you live in an almost 100% lily white state (Utah - < 1% black). Not very diverse in any way - including religion. Attributes which result in some very good demographics and economic stats and lifestyles. Heck - if Utah weren't so cold - or if I were anything other than a totally incompetent skier - I might think it an ideal place to live .
Some people may think Mormons are weird - but when I drive down I-95 from north Florida to south Florida - and see the huge acreage that the Mormon church owns and cultivates - to protect its food supply - well it reminds me of that old Gloria Steinem quote:
"Rich people plan for 3 generations - poor people plan for Saturday night".
You come on down and visit me some time. And I'll take you to a typical Golden Corral in JAX - where probably over 50% of the diners are morbidly obese black women with numerous illegitimate kids. Not a father in sight. You'll see the 34 year old grandmothers too.
One's perspective on life may be a result of what you see when you look around you. And although I would like to try to come up with a solution for a 45 year old construction worker in Florida who can't find a job now - even if it might cost me some dollars - I have no desire to support 17 year old mothers - 34 year old grandmothers - 51 year old great grandmothers - and great great grandmothers who are my age. Think most people in Utah - and a lot of retired people who have lived more or less middle class lives - would agree with me. Robyn
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). 
- the county and the EPA fought for months about what to do with it. The EPA refused to issue a burn permit - said it would pollute the air. Finally - when the stuff started to rot and stink - the county gave a finger to the EPA - set the stuff on fire - and it was gone in a few days. That was the end of that.
. Robyn
