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Old 11-12-2011, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by songbird52 View Post
I have many experiences and examples. I never took any of the drugs that almost everyone seems to be on (anti-depressants, blood pressure and cholesterol lowering), but my mother has been on them since she was young. I and talk to people about their prescription drug experiences. Some are pretty amazing.

For example, a woman in her 40s has been on drugs for anxiety for a long time. This resulted in a heart problem, so they gave her a drug for that. In turn, she got other symptoms and diseases. She is constantly going to doctors and getting tests.

If they told her in the first place that the best "medicine" for anxiety is regular aerobic exercise, she would probably be healthy and happy by now.

They had my mother on bp meds and statins for many years, and eventually she could hardly move her legs to walk. And her formerly mild mental illness became severe and incapacitating -- I don't know if that was related to the bp meds and statins, but quite possibly.

So she had to go on anti-depressants, which eventually contributed to memory loss. Of course the memory loss is probably also related to the hypertension she had all her life, in spite of the bp drugs. But who knows.

My mother was still young when they put her on all that stuff. Her high bp was probably lifestyle-related, since it almost always is. But instead of recommending more exercise and a better diet, she got pills.

My mother is 87 now, so the drugs did not kill her. But she would probably be healthier and able to function now if her MDs had been more holistic. And the same is true of the average middle aged and older American.

MDs think these drugs are keeping people alive, although usually in pretty bad condition. But we really don't know if they would have been better or worse without the drugs. I think the drugs cause more diseases than they cure..
Your mother is 87 - she has some memory loss - and weakness in her legs - and similar - and you are complaining????? GMAFB.

My father is 93 - good family history of longevity (father lived to 96 - mother to 103 - 3 of 5 sibs still alive - all 90 or so) - no meds - and he has some memory loss and his legs are weak too.

Did you ever consider that your mother might be dead or more incapacitated now without these meds? Or that the human body wasn't designed to last for 9 decades or so without some failures?

It's like my brother the doctor says about my father - the engine is still running - but the chassis is shot. Robyn
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Old 11-12-2011, 04:46 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,847 posts, read 30,364,616 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi60 View Post
So, I started taking a small dose as I use SPF50 almost daily which she knows.
I'd be throwing that SPF50 away. Study: Many Sunscreens May Be Accelerating Cancer

20yrsinBranson
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Old 11-12-2011, 05:00 PM
 
48 posts, read 38,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
Your mother is 87 - she has some memory loss - and weakness in her legs - and similar - and you are complaining????? GMAFB.

My father is 93 - good family history of longevity (father lived to 96 - mother to 103 - 3 of 5 sibs still alive - all 90 or so) - no meds - and he has some memory loss and his legs are weak too.

Did you ever consider that your mother might be dead or more incapacitated now without these meds? Or that the human body wasn't designed to last for 9 decades or so without some failures?

It's like my brother the doctor says about my father - the engine is still running - but the chassis is shot. Robyn
You have the typical materialist reductionist philosophy that is taught in medical schools now. My mother has been incapacitated and sick for many years. The human body was not designed to be sick and non-functioning. When my mother was younger than I am now she was already sick and on drugs. The typical medical philosophy made her stay sick and get sicker, instead of figuring out what was wrong and fixing it.

Medical school teaches that the human body starts wearing out in middle age and falls apart without drugs. This is not true, they have no evidence for it. It is just an assumption based on the fact that average longevity has increased. But it increased because now most infants and children survive, probably mostly because of antibiotics.

When people live naturally, they do not die from diabetes and artery disease. They die from accidents and violence and infections, or normal old age. It is not normal for people to be invalids for decades before they did. Well it's normal now, in our society, thanks to the modern medical philosophy.
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Old 11-12-2011, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,932,507 times
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Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
No, probably not. Then again, I'm not at all sure I'd even undergo treatment. Much would depend upon how much I would suffer and what quality of life I'd be likely to have afterwards. As you probably know, chemotherapy amounts to little more than bringing the body as close to death as possible to kill the cancer cells (my definition) and the effects on other, non-cancerous cells can be quite extreme, often leading to follow-on problems which can be crippling.

Since I've already lived a full and interesting life, and am certain where I'm going when I die, I see little reason to prolong life simply to prolong it. If it's not worth living, I'll just take my cancer and a good-sized prescription for morphine home and die on my own front porch. I'm 62 years old. I'll die soon anyhow, so what difference does a few more years make?
I think these are very personal decisions. I've had some friends die from cancer when they were in their 40's. But they hung on and had some really awful painful treatments because they wanted to last as long as possible for their (young) children. Similarly - if something were to happen to me or my husband - we'd have to discuss it between ourselves (neither of us wants to outlive the other - but neither of us wants to see the other suffer a whole lot either). This is an area where something other than the strict clinical practice of medicine comes into play IMO (and I will cross that bridge when I get to it). Robn
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Old 11-12-2011, 05:09 PM
 
48 posts, read 38,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
It often doesn't make any sense to compare the rates of a disease many decades ago with those now - because people live a lot longer today. More women are diagnosed with breast cancer now - because they live longer (and also perhaps because there are better screening techniques and women use them more). My mother was the first person in her family ever to get colon cancer. Because she lived past 80 - and most people in her family used to die at age 60 or so because of cardiac problems (she had 2 bypass operations - otherwise she would have been dead at 60 too - and avoided colon cancer). Robyn
People used to die in their 60s and 70s because they smoked cigarettes. People are NOT getting sicker now because they live longer. Longer than when? If you do not average in infant mortality, and if you compare to people who lived in clean environments, you probably would not see much difference. The statistics on longevity are VERY confusing and misleading. And they are misused to brainwash us into buying the new drugs.
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Old 11-12-2011, 05:22 PM
 
48 posts, read 38,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
Let me give you a reverse story about MY Mom.

She only smoked for a few years back in the 50's, ate right and walked a mile or more just about every day. At the age of 82, she was taking no medications at all and, though she'd had some memory loss and an increasing tendency to panic over the least little thing, she was in as perfect health as one can be at that age. She lived alone in her own house with few problems.

Then, she came down with something similar to the flu and went to the doctor. A chest X-ray was ordered and the doc thought it showed fluid build up around her heart, so she put her in the hospital and started her on the old reliable drug for such things...Lasix. It's what nearly all doctors would do for indications of congestive heart failure.

Within 12 hours, she suffered a massive stroke which literally killed about half of the left side of her brain. Today, she's lost the use of her right arm and right leg, is unable to stand, sit without being propped up, change her own clothes, bathe herself or doing just about anything but eat. She did recover her ability to speak and some vision in her right eye, but that's about all. She's now in a rest home, which costs her about $4200 per month out of her own money and will continue to do so until she's flat broke.

Subsequent tests found no evidence of congestive heart failure or even a significant amount of plaque build up in her arteries, with the sole exception of where the stroke occurred. The possibility of a stroke is one of the side effects of Lasix and my brothers and I are pretty sure that's what caused it. Now, her list of medicines is about as long as my arm and we have to keep a close eye on it because every time she sees a doctor for anything, or the rest home doctor comes around, some other drug is added for some reason or another. It's like she can't get close to a doctor without having something prescribed for some condition, to prevent something, or to offset the side effects of something else. It's madness.

The point is that modern medicine, with doctor's simply doing what they've been trained to do, has reduced a vibrant, alive, fully-functional, independent old woman into a nearly helpless and confused, wheel-chair bound woman totally dependent upon others for her very survival, a woman who went from having a brilliant mind, a former school teacher who wrote and read all the time, to one whose thought processes now run no farther than eating, pooping and going to bed. That's what's left of her life and that's all it will be until she dies.
That is a very sad story, and probably not atypical. Of course, doctors are only human so they make mistakes. And people do get old and sick eventually. But it is so true that doctors love to give old people as many drugs as possible. My mother is in an assisted living home, and I have to keep checking her medication list because they keep adding useless drugs.

The current medical philosophy seems to be that toxic chemicals are good for you, the more the better. The effects of these chemicals on the human body over many years, and in combinations, are not tested. It is especially upsetting when I hear about young people starting on these drugs.

For example, did you know that anti-acids can cause osteoporosis? Anti-acids are often prescribed for people who do not need them, and can cause all kinds of health problems. Just one more example.

Another thing MDs love to do is blame everything on age, even things that are obviously caused by prescription drugs. So if you lose your memory and your legs don't move, it must be age, it can't be those wonderful drugs.

When my mother was first diagnosed with memory loss I asked the doctor if it could be related to any of the drugs she was on, and he said absolutely no. Later, I found out from google that memory loss is a very common side effect of one of the drugs she had been on for years.
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Old 11-12-2011, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,932,507 times
Reputation: 6716
Quote:
Originally Posted by songbird52 View Post
You have the typical materialist reductionist philosophy that is taught in medical schools now. My mother has been incapacitated and sick for many years. The human body was not designed to be sick and non-functioning. When my mother was younger than I am now she was already sick and on drugs. The typical medical philosophy made her stay sick and get sicker, instead of figuring out what was wrong and fixing it.

Medical school teaches that the human body starts wearing out in middle age and falls apart without drugs. This is not true, they have no evidence for it. It is just an assumption based on the fact that average longevity has increased. But it increased because now most infants and children survive, probably mostly because of antibiotics.

When people live naturally, they do not die from diabetes and artery disease. They die from accidents and violence and infections, or normal old age. It is not normal for people to be invalids for decades before they did. Well it's normal now, in our society, thanks to the modern medical philosophy.
It is normal for people to live with physical problems and limitations into their 80's and 90's now - because MEDICINE AND THE MEDICAL PROFESSION AND THE DRUG COMPANIES don't let them die of things that used to kill them in their 60's and 70's 40 years ago.

FWIW - I think you are kind of an idiot when it comes to medical stuff. Like if I don't die in a car crash or get shot in the head or get pneumonia - I won't ever die . Perhaps you should just forget about your mother getting a pneumovax or flu shot - and then maybe she will die of pneumonia or the flu - one of the only ways people die in your opinion best I can figure out.

BTW - are you complaining because your mother - at age 87 - is still alive with limitations - or because she isn't dead? Robyn
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Old 11-13-2011, 05:43 AM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,745 posts, read 4,218,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by songbird52 View Post
You have the typical materialist reductionist philosophy that is taught in medical schools now.
You forgot, you're replying to Robyn. Cloaking a personal attack in "reductionist philosophy" BS ain't gonna fly. You will get it back three-fold.

My mother has been incapacitated and sick for many years.
Based on your prior posts (see below) your mother did not develop memory loss until her early 80's.
The human body was not designed to be sick and non-functioning. When my mother was younger than I am now she was already sick and on drugs. The typical medical philosophy made her stay sick and get sicker, instead of figuring out what was wrong and fixing it.

Medical school teaches that the human body starts wearing out in middle age and falls apart without drugs. This is not true, they have no evidence for it.
Brain MRIs and CAT scans most assuredly provide evidence of brain atrophy in the elderly. And yes, the degree of atrophy relates to memory loss.
It is just an assumption based on the fact that average longevity has increased. But it increased because now most infants and children survive, probably mostly because of antibiotics.

When people live naturally, they do not die from diabetes and artery disease. They die from accidents and violence and infections, or normal old age.
And what, pray tell, is death from "normal old age"?
It is not normal for people to be invalids for decades before they did. Well it's normal now, in our society, thanks to the modern medical philosophy.
Ifa, as you well know, peppering your opinion with personal attacks will get you banned. I did not disclose your identity when you joined the forum as Songbird52 because you seemed to be making an effort not to be obnoxious.

Guess not. Carry on.
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Old 11-13-2011, 11:18 AM
 
48 posts, read 38,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
It is normal for people to live with physical problems and limitations into their 80's and 90's now - because MEDICINE AND THE MEDICAL PROFESSION AND THE DRUG COMPANIES don't let them die of things that used to kill them in their 60's and 70's 40 years ago.

FWIW - I think you are kind of an idiot when it comes to medical stuff. Like if I don't die in a car crash or get shot in the head or get pneumonia - I won't ever die . Perhaps you should just forget about your mother getting a pneumovax or flu shot - and then maybe she will die of pneumonia or the flu - one of the only ways people die in your opinion best I can figure out.

BTW - are you complaining because your mother - at age 87 - is still alive with limitations - or because she isn't dead? Robyn
If you can't win with logic or evidence, just start calling names. I SAID that people died from normal old age, in addition to accidents, infections, etc. You have NO evidence that people who exercise and eat natural food would get diabetes, cancer and heart disease if they didn't die young. That is BS from the medical and drug industries, which you have completely bought. You are probably on lots of drugs yourself.
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Old 11-13-2011, 11:26 AM
 
48 posts, read 38,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lenora View Post
Ifa, as you well know, peppering your opinion with personal attacks will get you banned. I did not disclose your identity when you joined the forum as Songbird52 because you seemed to be making an effort not to be obnoxious.

Guess not. Carry on.
Telling someone they have a materialist philosophy is a personal attack? But you think it's ok for them to call me an idiot? I guess you don't like to know the truth about the medical and drug industries. They are causing serious damage to our society and all of us are paying for it.
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