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Old 11-14-2011, 10:25 AM
 
48 posts, read 38,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
With all this talk about the collusion and evils of the medical/pharmacology industry, one thing that hasn't been mentioned is the number of diseases that have essentially become extinct because of the research and various serums developed. Think smallpox, tuberculosis, polio and many others. It's not all bad, folks.
That is not relevant. The problem we are having now is thinking that because some drugs are good, more must be better. Antibiotics and vaccines have proven to cure or prevent certain types of diseases. It's really important to separate these from the over-prescribed drugs, especially the ones that cause more harm that good.
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Old 11-14-2011, 10:31 AM
 
48 posts, read 38,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson513 View Post
And, there other approaches to high blood pressure such as meditation, exercise, etc. I am not sure how effective diet is with cholesterol and mine is healthy off the charts (thanks to good genetics) but I am sure that some progress can be made for high cholesterol too.
Since your cholesterol is not high, your doctor was even more WRONG to prescribe blood pressure medicine.

Sure there are better ways than drugs to lower blood pressure. Remember that when blood pressure is too high, there is usually a REASON. It's better to look for the reason, don't you think? But doctors have been misled into thinking the reason doesn't matter, just lower the blood pressure. Does that really make sense to you?

People who have the inflammatory syndrome that leads to heart disease and stroke very often have a tendency towards type 2 diabetes. Type 2 diabetes is an epidemic in this country now, and it is well known that it is related to being overweight. And being overweight is known to being related to never exercising.

Now, you don't have this syndrome and your blood pressure isn't really high. But even if you did have this syndrome, blood pressure lowering drugs would not address the REASON for the problem. They would actually add to your problems.

And when patients take the ever-lengthening lists of drugs their doctors give them, their list of health problems grows also. But their doctors tell them it's because they are getting older.

And who can argue, since it's hard to really know why they keep getting sicker.
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:31 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,482,868 times
Reputation: 29071
Quote:
Originally Posted by songbird52 View Post
Since your cholesterol is not high, your doctor was even more WRONG to prescribe blood pressure medicine.

Sure there are better ways than drugs to lower blood pressure. Remember that when blood pressure is too high, there is usually a REASON. It's better to look for the reason, don't you think? But doctors have been misled into thinking the reason doesn't matter, just lower the blood pressure. Does that really make sense to you?

People who have the inflammatory syndrome that leads to heart disease and stroke very often have a tendency towards type 2 diabetes. Type 2 diabetes is an epidemic in this country now, and it is well known that it is related to being overweight. And being overweight is known to being related to never exercising.

Now, you don't have this syndrome and your blood pressure isn't really high. But even if you did have this syndrome, blood pressure lowering drugs would not address the REASON for the problem. They would actually add to your problems.

And when patients take the ever-lengthening lists of drugs their doctors give them, their list of health problems grows also. But their doctors tell them it's because they are getting older.

And who can argue, since it's hard to really know why they keep getting sicker.
To put what I'm about to say in proper perspective, for my last 18 working years I often wrote statute/law for the state for which I worked and from which I retired. However, as I am not a member of any bar I would not presume to offer legal advice to anyone here, even if I knew the answers.

That being said, quite frankly, Songbird, I would be much more apt to heed the advice of my carefully chosen and very competent primary care physician than I would be to *listen* to an anonymous someone with no profile on an on-line discussion board. To me, much of what you've expressed is tantamount to practicing medicine without a license.
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:40 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,482,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by songbird52 View Post
That is not relevant. The problem we are having now is thinking that because some drugs are good, more must be better. Antibiotics and vaccines have proven to cure or prevent certain types of diseases. It's really important to separate these from the over-prescribed drugs, especially the ones that cause more harm that good.
Perhaps YOU have that problem but my wife and I sure don't.
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Old 11-14-2011, 02:12 PM
 
48 posts, read 38,717 times
Reputation: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
To put what I'm about to say in proper perspective, for my last 18 working years I often wrote statute/law for the state for which I worked and from which I retired. However, as I am not a member of any bar I would not presume to offer legal advice to anyone here, even if I knew the answers.

That being said, quite frankly, Songbird, I would be much more apt to heed the advice of my carefully chosen and very competent primary care physician than I would be to *listen* to an anonymous someone with no profile on an on-line discussion board. To me, much of what you've expressed is tantamount to practicing medicine without a license.
It is quite bizarre to accuse someone of practicing medicine without a license because they express an opinion about health on a web forum! If you need to have blind faith in the medical industry, no one can stop you. If you don't want to be skeptical and listen to alternate opinions, no one is forcing you.

Maybe it's frightening to think that we should not have blind trust in MDs. Maybe you need to believe there is no danger in taking ever more prescription drugs.
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Old 11-14-2011, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,929,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson513 View Post
I was watching my new GP write out a prescription for blood pressure medication for me and thought, what the hell, I've been siting here for over an hour waiting to hear about some supposed bad blood test results and worring about it, and this guy waltzes in and wants to start off by taking my blood pressure and getting 150/92. I've never had high blood pressure before so I tell him. He rolls his eyes and says "everybody says they naver had high blood pressure before . . . "

So, after a lot of wrangling, I am going back in six months to see how my pressure is doing. Since then, I have been to CVS twice and bought my own Panasonic arm cuff PB machine and have checked it 30-50 times. Only one time did I get anything above 130 and that was after a walk up four flights of stairs. It has been reliably 125/78 since I refused the medication. Of course, once you start on the meds you are stuck for life.

So, I suggest a little more careful approach to these lifetime medications from my own experience.
Unless your BP is off the charts (which may be a medical emergency) - most doctors would have you check your BP a few times a day - at various times of the day - for a couple of weeks - before reaching any conclusions regarding any meds/best meds to try (assuming you're willing to buy a BP machine).

Note that if you haven't already done so - go to your doctor's office - or perhaps even your local fire station (the ones in our area do BP testing) - and check your machine against one that is known to be calibrated accurately.

FWIW - I noticed you said "new GP". Perhaps your new one isn't the right doctor for you. Robyn
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Old 11-14-2011, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,929,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by songbird52 View Post
You have no idea if she could have been alive today. As far as I know, the evidence shows that chemotherapy is not usually effective for breast cancer. Chemotherapy is often used in cases where it is unlikely to have any benefit. That's because they have no good treatments for most cancer, but want patients to feel something is being done.
Like I said in my joke above - I think I'd like to see another doctor - Dr. Songbird. Because chemo is used for breast cancer:

Treating Breast Cancer with Chemotherapy

And - for some patients - it can prolong life.

Perhaps you are thinking about the recent controversy regarding the use of one drug - Avastin - for breast cancer (Avastin is not technically a chemotherapy drug - but it is a drug):

Leigh Vinocur, M.D.: Emotions Run High When it Comes to Breast Cancer

Robyn
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Old 11-14-2011, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,929,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by songbird52 View Post
The body wears out and dies, as we all know. There is usually some diagnosis, but often it's really just old age. But this wearing out does not have to begin in the 60s, or 50s, 40s, or 30s. A person does not have to be disabled by diabetes, artery disease and arthritis.

When I was 30 I had fibromyalgia but didn't know it. I saw a doctor and was told the pain was from old age. I was amazed to hear it then, and even more amazed now that I am 60 and don't have pains. I have heard many other similar stories.

We are self-repairing machines and our bodies try to stay healthy and active if given a chance.

We don't have clean air and water any more and we can't do much about that. But we don't have to spend all waking hours sitting on chairs, and we can eat relatively natural food.
There are animals that self-repair a lot better than we do - like alligators (they have 5 sets of teeth that replace ones that fail). Wouldn't it be nice if we were like alligators .

And I think you should reflect before you start lumping various diseases and conditions together. In many cases - adult onset diabetes can be prevented by good lifestyle choices - like maintaining a proper weight (not so with juvenile diabetes). Some CAD can be prevented by good lifestyle choices - but there are genetic factors that can override those choices. As for arthritis - there are useful tips to try to minimize the effects - but nothing to the best of my knowledge that really prevents it. The kind of arthritis Phil Mickelson got is thought to be an auto-immune disease - like MS (note that I disapprove of his TV ads for Enbrel - a very powerful but potentially dangerous drug - suitable for some - but far from all - arthritis patients).

FWIW - it's ironic that you bash drug companies - since they're the primary advocate of having fibromyalgia labeled as a real disease (there are those in the medical profession who think it isn't):

Fibromyalgia: Disease Or Marketing Ploy? - CBS News

Robyn
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Old 11-14-2011, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,929,938 times
Reputation: 6716
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
I didn't say the doctor screwed up. I just said she did what any doctor has been trained to do. In any case, what would be the point of suing? It wouldn't make Mom better, would it? Is it right to "punish" someone for doing the best they know how to do?
The point of suing is to get money . Like money to take care of your mother. Robyn
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Old 11-14-2011, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Next stop Antarctica
1,799 posts, read 2,430,042 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by songbird52 View Post
How could there possibly be a guarantee for something like that? And where in any of my comments is that implied or stated? I said that it is almost guaranteed that a person will have a short life or an unhealthy old age if they do not take any responsibility for their health, and depend on doctors and drugs.

Most people I know do not make time for exercise. They are too busy, yet have time for watching TV.
I have always enjoyed a healthy diet and plenty of exercise, i'm not overweight but i'm diagnosed a diabetic, can't always know what is going to happen as we age. I kept it under control for 5 years with diet but as it is a progressive desease i now have to take the medication plus the diet. I'm not ready to go yet still have a lot to do and want to die with my feet on.
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