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Old 11-17-2011, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,935,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
I'm actually less than a one. But, whatever I die from, you can probably be assured it won't be because I poisoned my body by taking a lot of drugs.

You may do as you wish.
I don't care about my exact cause of death. I'd just like to live as long as I can with a decent quality of life. And I don't care to be a "poster child" for any particular "cause". Like I've said in the past - I'm kind of a pragmatic person. Robyn
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Old 11-17-2011, 05:53 PM
 
48 posts, read 38,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
The only thing I'd mention about stuff in the water is that - for us women - one way of avoiding osteoporosis is to do weight bearing activity. Like even walking. Our bodies carrying our weight. Doing stuff in the water doesn't accomplish that goal (but walking does). Another way is to be a little overweight. Sounds counter-intuitive that being thin can hurt you - but thin women are more prone to osteoporosis than those carrying a few extra pounds. And they get more wrinkles in their faces too . Robyn
Thin women being more prone to osteoporosis is a correlation, and you have no reason to think being thin can cause osteoporosis. Or that being overweight helps prevent it. There are many uncontrolled variables in that kind of correlation. For example, maybe thin women are more likely to be smokers, and smoking might contribute to osteoporosis (that is just an example of a possibility, I have no idea if it's true). Or maybe certain genetic factors are associated with both thinness and osteoporosis.

The last thing American women need is encouragement to be overweight. And there are serious diseases that are associated with being overweight, and THAT association probably is at least partly causal.

Most people, including MDs, and especially journalists who write medical stories, would benefit greatly from reading a short article on why you can't infer causation from correlations.
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Old 11-17-2011, 05:54 PM
 
48 posts, read 38,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lenora View Post
Don't be modest. I suppose if you can hold yourself out as a scientist based on completing graduate courses in psychology and earning a Ph.D. in linguistics, I can likewise hold myself out as a scientist. I completed doctoral level classes in research/data analysis in psychology, including multiple regression analysis, etc. Dang, won't my kids be surprised to find that not only is their mother a nurse and a lawyer, she's also a scientist!

BTW, medical doctors, in general, understand research and data analysis to the same extent as those majoring in the "soft" sciences.



Well you're a real expert on me. I didn't think I was that interesting.
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Old 11-17-2011, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,935,948 times
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[quote=theatergypsy;21744960]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
Snip...
FWIW - the only drug that I take about which reasonable people (or doctors) might have different points of view is Premarin. If I didn't take the drug - I would have gone through surgically induced menopause quite a while ago. And I didn't/don't want to go through menopause. My particular doctors believe that the benefits of long-term HRT outweigh the risks - especially for women who are at low risk for breast cancer. So my desires are in synch with their recommendations. OTOH - if I still had all my female plumbing - I doubt I would have reached the same conclusion. On the third hand - if there's any medical reason at all to do it - I'd get rid of all my female plumbing if I were in my 50's or older. At a certain age - all female plumbing is is another place to get cancer. Robyn[/quote]

Right you are, Robyn. I had my plumbing removed at age 51. Good. No chance of cancer there, I said. So at age 74, I was diagnosed with colon cancer. Go figure.
Well I hope with the colon cancer they caught it early enough that you were able to do something about it to give you a decent chance of dying of something else.

My mother was diagnosed with colon cancer at about age 81 - and refused to do anything about it - because she was a cardiac patient - and thought she might die on the operating table. IMO - she would have been better off dying on the operating than dying from the colon cancer the way she died.

I am far from an expert when it comes to colon cancer - but please feel free to DM me if you have any questions about what I observed when my mother was going through it. Regards, Robyn
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Old 11-17-2011, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 17,935,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by songbird52 View Post
Robyn, I think you are overly impressed by status and titles. Someone is an MD so you automatically respect their opinions...
I was the second woman in Dade County Florida to get an AV Martindale Hubbell rating as a lawyer. I am not easily impressed by anyone in any field. Titles or not. People have to earn my respect. And I certainly am not impressed by you.

So once again - what kind of scientist are you? Robyn
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Old 11-17-2011, 07:40 PM
 
48 posts, read 38,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
I was the second woman in Dade County Florida to get an AV Martindale Hubbell rating as a lawyer. I am not easily impressed by anyone in any field. Titles or not. People have to earn my respect. And I certainly am not impressed by you.

So once again - what kind of scientist are you? Robyn
At least you are impressed with yourself. Lenora is an expert on me, so just read her comment.
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Old 11-17-2011, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,745 posts, read 4,219,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by songbird52 View Post
Thin women being more prone to osteoporosis is a correlation, and you have no reason to think being thin can cause osteoporosis. Or that being overweight helps prevent it. There are many uncontrolled variables in that kind of correlation. For example, maybe thin women are more likely to be smokers, and smoking might contribute to osteoporosis (that is just an example of a possibility, I have no idea if it's true). Or maybe certain genetic factors are associated with both thinness and osteoporosis.

The last thing American women need is encouragement to be overweight. And there are serious diseases that are associated with being overweight, and THAT association probably is at least partly causal.

Most people, including MDs, and especially journalists who write medical stories, would benefit greatly from reading a short article on why you can't infer causation from correlations.
Now, that's funny. I think most folks following this thread at least understand basic high school statistics.

Research has consistently shown that the two biggest risk factors for developing osteoporosis are age and <gasp> weight. The studies were not designed by amateur scientists (who apparently do not understand how a properly designed study can isolate and measure the effect of each variable by itself and in relation to the remaining variables through multivariate regression analysis).

Other variables investigated included weight-bearing exercise, caffeine intake, smoking, alcohol use, calcium intake, vitamin D levels, estrogen replacement, corticosteroids use, etc. There are literally hundreds of studies that have drawn the same conclusion. NONE of those variables have as great an impact on the development of osteoporosis as age and weight.

I find it incredibly disturbing that you believe that thin people should not be encouraged to gain weight because the majority of Americans are fat. And how, exactly, is that relevant to the thin person?

BTW, at least one study suggests that weight gain can slow the progression of osteoporosis. Risk Factors for Longitudinal Bone Loss in Elderly Men and Women: The Framingham Osteoporosis Study - Hannan - 2010 - Journal of Bone and Mineral Research - Wiley Online Library
There may be more studies demonstrating the effect of weight gain, but as I mentioned, there are hundreds of studies addressing osteoporosis and I didn't have time to read all of them (although I certainly read more than the one cited.) Seriously, if you're going to act as if no one knows what the hell he or she is talking about, the least you could do is educate yourself in the matter being discussed.
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Old 11-17-2011, 11:40 PM
 
Location: Next stop Antarctica
1,799 posts, read 2,430,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lenora View Post
Now, that's funny. I think most folks following this thread at least understand basic high school statistics.

Research has consistently shown that the two biggest risk factors for developing osteoporosis are age and <gasp> weight. The studies were not designed by amateur scientists (who apparently do not understand how a properly designed study can isolate and measure the effect of each variable by itself and in relation to the remaining variables through multivariate regression analysis).

Other variables investigated included weight-bearing exercise, caffeine intake, smoking, alcohol use, calcium intake, vitamin D levels, estrogen replacement, corticosteroids use, etc. There are literally hundreds of studies that have drawn the same conclusion. NONE of those variables have as great an impact on the development of osteoporosis as age and weight.

I find it incredibly disturbing that you believe that thin people should not be encouraged to gain weight because the majority of Americans are fat. And how, exactly, is that relevant to the thin person?

BTW, at least one study suggests that weight gain can slow the progression of osteoporosis. Risk Factors for Longitudinal Bone Loss in Elderly Men and Women: The Framingham Osteoporosis Study - Hannan - 2010 - Journal of Bone and Mineral Research - Wiley Online Library
There may be more studies demonstrating the effect of weight gain, but as I mentioned, there are hundreds of studies addressing osteoporosis and I didn't have time to read all of them (although I certainly read more than the one cited.) Seriously, if you're going to act as if no one knows what the hell he or she is talking about, the least you could do is educate yourself in the matter being discussed.
Also recommended is using handweights it can strengthen the muscles around the neck and back to support the spine and head. Of course this has to be supervised.Also eat plenty of low fat dairy foods.
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Old 11-18-2011, 03:39 AM
 
Location: Location: Location
6,352 posts, read 7,831,222 times
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[quote=Robyn55;21760030]
Quote:
Originally Posted by theatergypsy View Post

Well I hope with the colon cancer they caught it early enough that you were able to do something about it to give you a decent chance of dying of something else.

My mother was diagnosed with colon cancer at about age 81 - and refused to do anything about it - because she was a cardiac patient - and thought she might die on the operating table. IMO - she would have been better off dying on the operating than dying from the colon cancer the way she died.

I am far from an expert when it comes to colon cancer - but please feel free to DM me if you have any questions about what I observed when my mother was going through it. Regards, Robyn

I'm almost three years out from my colon cancer surgery. I had six months of oral chemo. Six weeks after the end of chemo I was once again performing on stage. I live alone in my own home, take care of my own needs including cutting the grass. I cook my own meals and frequently babysit grandchildren.


I'm sorry for your Mother's travail, but we must each make the decision that we feel is best for us, as she did.

I think you may have missed the point of my post. My hysterectomy was performed for specific medical reasons, but not malignancy. There is no guarantee, however, that removal of organs will assure that one will not be a victim of cancer.
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:43 AM
Status: "Be yourself. What's the alternative?" (set 22 days ago)
 
8,705 posts, read 10,847,720 times
Reputation: 12765
Quote:
Originally Posted by songbird52 View Post
Of course not! But NOT exercising at all and eating mostly processed food will almost guarantee either a short life, or an old age full of pain and disability.
I had 2 in-laws who ate nothing but processed foods, the regular "American" diet and the female seldom exercised her whole life. She was pretty healthy right up until 1 year before she died at 87. The male drank moderately for a good portion of his life, but eating TV dinners most nights. He lived to be a month short of 89 and healthy up to maybe 1-2 years before his death.
Her mother the same thing (but I think she ate worse actually--red meat, sweets, processed foods). She died tapping her foot to music, literally not kidding, at 93.
Some people have constitutions that are just hardy--who knows why? But, others do seem to have to watch everything. I think it's hard to figure these things out.

Last edited by Nanny Goat; 11-18-2011 at 11:53 AM..
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