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Good point. There is a philosophical issue underlying this whole discussion. Why are we so ready to accept being crippled, or disabled , or whatever word we want to use for it? It is not inevitable that everyone winds up that way. Would it not be better to focus on living in such a way as to minimize the chances, such as maintaining muscle tone and balance through activities such as yoga? Some folks act like they just assume that they will need to be in a nursing home someday, and that mindset leads to a fearful, timid way of living.
The above is one philosophical view, and its opposite might call that view denial. Denial of the possibility that we could become crippled and disabled and therefore end up in a nursing home. And that possibility is not entirely remote, as we can see by looking around us. So the sensible conclusion (for this opposite mindset) would be to prepare for the worst while hoping the preparations will not be needed; we buy long-term care insurance, get a single-story house, widen the doorways to accept a wheelchair, etc.
These two basic viewpoints are quite different from each other, and they are probably influenced by our temperaments and our experience with aging relatives, among other factors. It is truly a philosophical issue, and failure to realize this leads to much talking past each other in these types of threads.
It's probably not hard to guess, if you have read my posts, that I belong to the first camp. But that doesn't mean I think people are doing the wrong thing to get a one-story house; if that makes them comfortable there is no harm, and indeed, it could turn out that they will need it someday. I have simply been trying to present another way to look at the issue.
I think the intent of this thread was to discuss the issues relating to planning for the future.
For my part, I live on four stories (yes, all steps) with a terraced 3/4 acre lot with an in ground swimming pool and do all of the maintenance and repair myself. No doubt the day will come when I cannot do four floors of stairs, and carry stuff up from the back of my yard, etc. So as I think about downsizing, elimination of stairs is a must have item. Why have to do it twice? I have no intention of moving to a nursing home or elder care facility. I'll be happy to die a few years prematurely in my own home with a housekeeper to help my wife and then hospice care. /I want to have a definite plan, not some response to a fall on stairs or an illness that limits my stair climbing on stairs that should have been out of my life a decade before. I'll bring lovely flowers when I visit persons in the nursing home or folks who are sleeping in a converted dining room and washing up in a makeshift bath and who did not plan as well.
We're in a tri-level house with alot of stairs. It's the hauling of the groceries up to the kitchen - and the laundry haul - that gets old. We've been here 14 years - and will probably stay here - at least until I retire - in 8 or 9 years.
I can always gauge the status of my knees by how hard it is to climb the stairs. My weight as well. One pound of weight loss is equivalent to 4 pounds of pressure off the knees. I just lost 30 pounds - so 120 pounds of pressure - off my knees - voila! The hard part is keeping the weight off.
But I do agree- anyone is one slip or fall away from disaster. Strokes cause falls too - as my mother will attest.
We will either build - or remodel whatever our retirement home is - to fit our needs. It will be one level. I can get my endorphin fix - on walking and climbing hills....or using the eliptical at the gym.
When my folks retired - they went from a rather small 1700 square foot home to a 3000 square foot condo - two levels. They bought large - so that the kids would have a place to stay when they visited. Dad NEVER went downstairs - which were considerable. Mom only did for laundry. It was a huge waste of space - which they never kept heated - so that when we did visit - was like sleeping in an icebox.
I also look forward to clearing out all the junk we've accumulated over the years. No need for a house larger than 2000 square feet - if that.
Somebody has to clean it. And we are not hoarders.
We're in a tri-level house with alot of stairs. It's the hauling of the groceries up to the kitchen - and the laundry haul - that gets old. We've been here 14 years - and will probably stay here - at least until I retire - in 8 or 9 years.
I can always gauge the status of my knees by how hard it is to climb the stairs. My weight as well. One pound of weight loss is equivalent to 4 pounds of pressure off the knees. I just lost 30 pounds - so 120 pounds of pressure - off my knees - voila! The hard part is keeping the weight off.
But I do agree- anyone is one slip or fall away from disaster. Strokes cause falls too - as my mother will attest.
We will either build - or remodel whatever our retirement home is - to fit our needs. It will be one level. I can get my endorphin fix - on walking and climbing hills....or using the eliptical at the gym.
When my folks retired - they went from a rather small 1700 square foot home to a 3000 square foot condo - two levels. They bought large - so that the kids would have a place to stay when they visited. Dad NEVER went downstairs - which were considerable. Mom only did for laundry. It was a huge waste of space - which they never kept heated - so that when we did visit - was like sleeping in an icebox.
I also look forward to clearing out all the junk we've accumulated over the years. No need for a house larger than 2000 square feet - if that.
Somebody has to clean it. And we are not hoarders.
One thing to consider when you retire - especially if there are 2 working spouses now. You will both spend more time at home - and will each need your own "space". That means - at least for us - 2 home offices (for others - it might mean a "shop" - a "craft room" - etc.). On our part - we also learned to cook - so our kitchen and dining area became more important. We actually went from an 1800 sf condo when we were working to a 2800 sf house when we retired. I think we made a few mistakes with our plans - but not too many considering this was our first house.
As for building extra space for kids. Unless you live in an area with no (relatively inexpensive) hotels to stay - I'd forget about it. My 93 year old father turned his second bedroom into a home office. And even though I live near my father (and have a guest suite - built originally so elderly parents could easily visit us) and even though one of my brothers and his wife are now retired and live about 300 miles away (the other is 2500 miles away) - my 2 brothers visit a total of less than 7 days a year between them (even though neither is poor or anywhere near it). It's cheaper to put kids up in a hotel for a week a year than to pay for space you don't use 95% of the time. Robyn
Good point. There is a philosophical issue underlying this whole discussion. Why are we so ready to accept being crippled, or disabled , or whatever word we want to use for it? It is not inevitable that everyone winds up that way. Would it not be better to focus on living in such a way as to minimize the chances, such as maintaining muscle tone and balance through activities such as yoga? Some folks act like they just assume that they will need to be in a nursing home someday, and that mindset leads to a fearful, timid way of living.
The above is one philosophical view, and its opposite might call that view denial. Denial of the possibility that we could become crippled and disabled and therefore end up in a nursing home. And that possibility is not entirely remote, as we can see by looking around us. So the sensible conclusion (for this opposite mindset) would be to prepare for the worst while hoping the preparations will not be needed; we buy long-term care insurance, get a single-story house, widen the doorways to accept a wheelchair, etc.
These two basic viewpoints are quite different from each other, and they are probably influenced by our temperaments and our experience with aging relatives, among other factors. It is truly a philosophical issue, and failure to realize this leads to much talking past each other in these types of threads.
It's probably not hard to guess, if you have read my posts, that I belong to the first camp. But that doesn't mean I think people are doing the wrong thing to get a one-story house; if that makes them comfortable there is no harm, and indeed, it could turn out that they will need it someday. I have simply been trying to present another way to look at the issue.
There is a big difference between being 10 feet under and needing an assistive device (like a cane or walker or wheelchair - or grab bars - or glasses - or hearing aids - or any other assistive device for that matter).
And I think it's rather presumptuous for people who are pretty young and have no disabilities to think that people who have them should put a gun to their heads. I mean my husband ran 3 miles a day (and a couple of marathons) until - as Forrest Gump would say - MS bit him in the "but-tocks" when he was about 60. And there are some things you can't fight. Certainly MS. And my father has some orthopedic problems as a result of his age. He can ride 10k miles a year on his stationary bike to try to strengthen his legs (he does 30 minutes a day) - and it won't help one bit. Still - I don't say anything - unless he doesn't use his walker in places where he might fall (sometimes he gets vain and won't use it).
FWIW - I don't know how long my husband and I will live (would make life easier financially if I did) - but my father's family has great longevity. And even the sickest of our parents (my late MIL) didn't die until she was almost 80. One of my father's sisters (my favorite aunt) had 2 total knee replacements at 90+ because she was in a lot of pain (very risky at her age - and she probably would have died of cardiac arrest during one or the other - she arrested after both - had her son not been chief of medical services at the hospital and at her bedside 24/7 post-op). And PTL - she has finally broken down and is allowing her sons to help her pay for an independent senior living facility in Manhattan (she couldn't afford it on her own - and resisted her sons' offers of financial help to move there for years - but she can no longer function alone in her apartment in Queens - even with 2 knee replacements).
Also - if one lives in a place now - and it works now - I don't see any reason to move. OTOH - if one is considering a move at age 55+ or older - I think planning for the hand one might be dealt 20 years down the road is in order (if the move is to a retirement place where one hopes to "age in place" - not something like a 4 year relocation for a job).
Finally - I don't see any contradiction between trying to minimize the chances that we'll have problems - while acknowledging that we may. It's not an either/or thing IMO. And I reckon for most people here who are 60ish - they won't be so willing to leave this world 10-20 years from now when the first little thing in their bodies doesn't work 100% perfectly. Life can be fun - even if you can't drive a golf ball 200 yards . Robyn
Robyn, it would never occur to me to spend any amount of time investigating you, reading your back posts, etc., to find out where you were coming from but good luck to you. It's also sad that in order to give my words any validity you had to 'figure me out'.
We also use every single inch of our new home, I'm currently on the top floor in a loft, typing on my computer, loving the view of the woods and the pond through the fog. I have a full bath up here as well as a guestroom that was used just this weekend by my grandson. Our lower level isn't a basement, it's a full walk-out, with another deck and a view of a wooded pond. We use the lower level for entertaining, it's also another guestroom, which was also used this weekend, and it has a home theater set up. Our main level is just that, kitchen, MBR, MBA, LR, Laundry, etc.
Having a house with 3 floors when one realizes the day may well come when only one will be useable doesn't make a lot of sense to me. How about taste? There's something stately about stairs. How about you take a deep breath and live and let live. It must give you a headache always having to be right. Also, the day will come when all we'll need is a pine box and a hole in the ground. Should I move there now because 'the day may well come'???
Only reason I looked is because what you said didn't make any sense to me - i.e., that you moved out of a house because it didn't have stairs.
As it turns out - you moved to Florida (apparently you never lived here before) in your mid-50's and didn't like it because your kids didn't visit you enough - you missed your friends - you didn't like the weather - etc. - etc. All perfectly acceptable reasons to leave Florida (although I've lived here for 40+ years and happen to like it). But please don't tell me it has anything to do with stairs.
And how old are you now - maybe 60 (mid-50's plus 5 equals about 60)? You're not even a "junior senior" (65-80) - much less a "senior senior" (80+). Just a middle-aged person who made a personal mistake in your first "retirement move". Nothing wrong with that. But please don't try to make it into something that it isn't (like you moved from Florida to Cape Cod at age 82 because you missed your stairs).
As for style - I'm into mid-century modern when it comes to interior decor - and I've never seen a really nice mid-century modern house with a lot of stairs. But personal design tastes really don't have anything to do with safe living environments for "aging in place". Robyn
P.S. Feel free to read any of my prior messages that you care to read. Wouldn't bother me a bit.
I looked it up and I won't bore you with cites or belabor the point any more than to say that falls are the number one cause of injuries to the elderly in the home, the stairs are the number one cause of the falls, and the obstacle resulting in the most serious injuries. And, that stair design can minimize accidents but not eliminate them which can only be accomplished by removing stairs. Look it up. I still like stairs but they may be too dangerous for a residence that a person wants to die of old age in as opposed to dying of accidental death.
Agree 100%. One of my brothers is a doctor. And the one thing he tries to drill into my elderly father's head is he must avoid - at all costs - falling down - and winding up with something like a broken hip. It's kind of a death sentence when you're pretty old. Robyn
Agree 100%. One of my brothers is a doctor. And the one thing he tries to drill into my elderly father's head is he must avoid - at all costs - falling down - and winding up with something like a broken hip. It's kind of a death sentence when you're pretty old. Robyn
When I was a young associate in a boutique business law firm, I had the geriatric duty. That meant meeting with seniors in hospitals and nursing homes, handling last arrangements, coping with the financial calamities of our clients' elderly parents, mental health commitments, etc.
Over and over I heard the stories of why pop was in the nursing home in the first place and it seemed like it was always a fall. "He was doing just fine until he fell down the porch steps, blah, blah, blah." It was sad. And, it made me think.
The first thing I tell my friends who have elderly and infirm parents is to load the stepstool and the step ladder the lawn mower, power saw, etc. in the car and take them away. Then make arrangements for others to change the light bulbs, cut the grass, etc. There is nothing honorable or important about changing a light bulb or carrying the laundry down the basement stairs. Of course our elders don't want meddling in their affairs, but so what. We don't want them to be in the hospital with a broken hip. Too bad.
And when it is my turn, I swear not to complain that I can't clean the gutters on my roof or run the string trimmer. I swear!
I have stairs that go to the basement. The only thing that is down there is the washer and dryer, a futon, and a TV. Our bathroom on the main floor has a walk-in shower with a bench. My son and step-son redid it last year. We have a spare bedroom upstairs and a non-conforming downstairs. We are lucky that my step-son is a "Mr Fix-It" and does all the maintainace and yard work for us.
There is a big difference between being 10 feet under and needing an assistive device (like a cane or walker or wheelchair - or grab bars - or glasses - or hearing aids - or any other assistive device for that matter).
And I think it's rather presumptuous for people who are pretty young and have no disabilities to think that people who have them should put a gun to their heads.
I think you are confusing me with the poster to whom I was responding. If you re-read my post you will see that I was not advocating that people with disabilities should put a gun to their heads. I'm not sure the other poster was either, but I am too lazy to go back and check. You are generally quite fair-minded, and so I was surprised at your mis-representation of my point of view. As for your example of wearing glasses, I have worn them full-time since the second grade, and that was a very, very long time ago.
My post was an attempt to summarize two opposing attitudes toward preparations for getting old. I did not say that one attitude was "right" and the other "wrong".
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. Robyn
