The American Dream Is Quickly Becoming The American Nightmare

[Escort Rider]

Originally Posted by LauraC

Two words: Soylent Green

...only they'll rush it a little. All I know is I'm not taking any "recommended for old people" shots.

Well, one of the "recommended for old people shots" is the vaccine for shingles. I had that one at age 65 as recommended, on my own initiative, not my doctor's. Sticking with just that one example for a moment, I am wondering if you have ever spoken to some who has had shingles? If so, you have already heard about how painful it can be, and how long it can last. If you should ever get shingles, and I hope you don't, then let's meet back here and discuss whether you regret not getting the vaccine, or if you still hold to your paranoia about "old people shots".

[cdelena]

Originally Posted by Escort Rider

Well, one of the "recommended for old people shots" is the vaccine for shingles. I had that one at age 65 as recommended, on my own initiative, not my doctor's. Sticking with just that one example for a moment, I am wondering if you have ever spoken to some who has had shingles? If so, you have already heard about how painful it can be, and how long it can last. If you should ever get shingles, and I hope you don't, then let's meet back here and discuss whether you regret not getting the vaccine, or if you still hold to your paranoia about "old people shots".

I got cheap and refused to pay $200 for the vaccination a couple of years ago. I am recovering from a case of shingles right now and thankfully it was pretty mild. A couple of weeks taking acyclovir and Advil combined with longer showers was all it took for me. I see that some poor folks have very serious cases so it was probably not smart of me to skip the shot... I got lucky.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by motordavid

... where do I 'apply' to get those 3 mins back?

Simple, don't ever waste your time.

If people don't have the courtesy to provide a synopsis, then don't indulge them.

Applying...

Mircea

Originally Posted by bumpus7

In 2011 The Baby Boomers Start To Turn 65

The full-retirement age for Boomers starts at age 66. For those born in 1955, and for every year after that up to 1960, the full-retirement age increases two months, meaning that someone born in 1957 cannot receive full-benefits until they have 66 years and 6 months.

So pardon me if I don't find your nonsense to be credible.

Credibly....

Mircea

Originally Posted by jambo101

At this point most of the boomers are at the end of their working careers or close to it, what do you suggest as a solution to the impending strain on the economy by the huge upcoming demographic of boomers?.

What impending strain on the economy?

Questioning...

Mircea

Originally Posted by newenglandgirl

After the Boomers pass the world will be back to normal.

Not on this planet.

Originally Posted by newenglandgirl

While it may be true that many boomers are "all set" financially for retirement, it may well be not so true for the coming generations.

And whose fault is that?

Let's review some facts.

When Boomers started working, the FICA tax was 3.625% and then it was increased to 6.2%. Let's do the math (lest there be any confusion).

6.200
3.625 less
-------
2.575 / 3.625 * 100 = 71.03%

Boomers had a 71% payroll tax increase, to fund Social Security, so it would be there when they retire.

How much have Social Security taxes increased for the Gen X/Gen Y Pukes? Again, we'll do the math:

6.20
6.20 less
----------
0 / 6.2 * 100 = 0%

Wow, a whopping 0% FICA tax increase on Gen X and Gen Y.

How terribly horrifying it must be to have to suffer through no FICA tax increase whatsoever. In fact, aren't the Gen X/Gen Y Pukes getting a 2% rebate right now?

The Story so far.....

Okay, so the story so far is that the Boomers paid a 71% increase in FICA payroll taxes to ensure that Social Security would be there for them when they retire. Meanwhile, our heroes in Generation Me, Myself and I and Generation Gimme, Gimme, Gimme don't have the common sense to pay an higher FICA tax rate so that Social Security will be there for them, and instead, our heroes want to cut benefits for Boomers and keep the money for themselves.

Is that it?

When we read the April 2012 Social Security Report, we see that on page 4 the Trustees recommend increasing the FICA payroll tax to 7.505%.

Let's do the math:

7.505
6.200 less
--------
1.305 / 6.2 * 100 = 21%

Wow, a whole big 21% the horror....the horror... That isn't the 71% that Boomers got slapped with.

Originally Posted by newenglandgirl

Jobs are falling short in frightening numbers, and job stability is becoming a thing of the past for all but the top professions.

Yeah, so? I told you all that way back in 2007 about 6 years ago.

What, exactly, if anything, has changed? Absolutely nothing. It is still an irrefutable fact that Americans are extremely overpaid in a manner most disgusting in comparison to the rest of the world.

As I said, in developing States, wages typically double every 10 years so by about the year 2040, America -- if it still exists -- should start to be competitive again, and then sometime between 2050 and 2060 there should be no competitive difference, however, don't plan on jobs coming back at that point.

Originally Posted by newenglandgirl

.... higher education costs are off the wall, and it could be in future decades back to the domain of the elite.

So what? Let's have an healthy dose of facts.

25.8% is the percentage of the 255 million working-age people in the US who have a college degree.

4.7% is the percentage of working age persons with degrees in the United Kingdom
4.6% is the percentage of working age persons with degrees in Germany
3.6% is the percentage of working age persons with degrees in France
3.1% is the percentage of working age persons with degrees in Spain

Just to put that into perspective, there are 65,790,000 people in the US with college degrees, while the entire population of Germany is 81,770,000 people. Note that the US has more people with degrees than the entire populatoin of the United Kingdom = 62,232,000 people.

By the way, isn't education in Euro countries "free" (snicker)?

I can tell you from experience, having been a grad student and teaching classes back in 2005, that in a class of 100 students, about 70 of them didn't deserve to be in university and shouldn't have been allowed to even set foot on a college campus -- that's just how stupid they were.

I like the European education system. It's very -- um, conservative in nature, because it is a meritocracy and it rewards effort and hard work.

Generally, in the 8th Grade you test. The result of that test determines if you get into the educational track, or the vocational track (where you don't ever go to college). Then you test again at age 16 when you are graduated from high school. The results of that test determine if you get to go to college preparatory school, or an higher level vocational school (where you won't you ever go to college).

When you graduate college preparatory school at age 18, you test again to see if you get into university -- or you spend the rest of your life dreaming about university.

Merely passing the test isn't good enough. You have to outscore everyone else in order to guarantee you get to go to university -- and if you do -- you get to go for practically free in most instances.

I like that system. I would be willing to do that in the US and give everyone who earns the right a free ride at university. Of course, that would mean that instead of 25.8% of working age Americans having college degrees, it would mean that only about 4.5% would have them.

Originally Posted by newenglandgirl

Secure boomers are seeing things only through their own lens.

And which Boomers would that be? The ones who slogged their way through a 71% FICA tax increase to ensure Social Security would be there for them?

Or the Boomers who acted smartly with their money, budgeting, saving, planning and using credit wisely to their advantage, instead of to their disadvantage?

There is no law or statute that says you must spend $120/month on cable/internet. You can, if you so desire, put that $120/month in savings account.

There is no law or statute that says you have put 0% and finance a car for 72 months and get upside down on the loan. You can, if you so desire, put 10% down and finance it for 18 to 24 months.

So why don't you? Oh, I forgot, it's Generation Me, Myself and I and Generation Gimme, Gimme, Gimme. They waste a lot of money, but then they adore and worship the Disposable Society, do they not?

Factually...

Mircea

Originally Posted by Escort Rider

Also, your comments about what part of the country a person is retiring from are spot on. The person with a pension from a high cost of living state (and you could have added California to that list) at least has some interesting options. He or she can move to a low cost of living state and live like a king or queen - not because food or clothing or utilities are that much different but because housing is enormously different.

Anyone who doubts that last point about housing should spend a little time reading in the Real Estate Forum here. I have been astounded time and time again at the low prices of houses in a variety of places like Kansas, Tennessee, Arizona, Nevada, and parts of Pennsylvania (and others). My astonishment is colored, of course, by my Los Angeles perspective, and we should keep in mind that many places are worse than Los Angeles (New York City, Honolulu, and San Francisco, to name just three). I have chosen to stay here and live modestly but in reasonable comfort, and I am very pleased with my choice. However I certainly understand those who have chosen to move and I have no quarrel with them.

But as you pointed out, a person with a pension from Mississippi or Kansas or Alabama just does not have the option of moving to Los Angeles because they would like to hear the L.A. Philharmonic Orchestra live on a regular basis! Or because they are tired of the humidity. In the Real Estate Forum recently, a poster was saying that in his/her (unnamed) town in Kansas, the median family income is $30,000 per year and a $100,000 house was spoken of as being the house of a very well-off person, while there are rental properties for sale for $30,000. I don't think there is even such a thing as a $100,000 house in Los Angeles, but if there is I certainly wouldn't want to live in it, or in its neighborhood.

Congratulations for concisely pointing out why there should never be "federal anything" --- ever.

No doubt some people just don't understand the meaning of heterogeneity.

The problems you mentioned -- and there are myriad problems that you didn't even get to address -- can all be avoided by simply following the Constitution of the United States and getting rid of every thing federal.

Can a State have a social security-like plan? Yes it surely can. When FDR was governor of New York State, he set up such a program for New York State residents. Was that a mistake? No. His mistake was trying to coerce the plan upon the entire United States.

The problems you mention, are totally eliminated if States run their own plans, run their own Food Stamps, HUD, Education, Medicare/Health Care, minimum wage etc etc etc.

There is a price for stupidity, and all of you are paying dearly for stupidity.

You mentioned Kansas, well there's lot's of places like that in the US. Contrary to the false beliefs held by so many, you can buy a house on just minimum wage. Can you do that in New York City or Los Angeles? No, but then I never said one could to that in those cities.

So you have a system, well, several systems actually, where some Americans are unjustly enriched at the expense of other Americans, and in the name of the "general Welfare" clause.

Heterogeneously....

Mircea

[xz2y]

Originally Posted by Escort Rider

Well, one of the "recommended for old people shots" is the vaccine for shingles. I had that one at age 65 as recommended, on my own initiative, not my doctor's. Sticking with just that one example for a moment, I am wondering if you have ever spoken to some who has had shingles? If so, you have already heard about how painful it can be, and how long it can last. If you should ever get shingles, and I hope you don't, then let's meet back here and discuss whether you regret not getting the vaccine, or if you still hold to your paranoia about "old people shots".

A very good friend of mine is still suffering from the aftermath of a shingles attack that started in April. She has missed three months of work and is now going back to work part-time, hoping to return to full time by mid-July. Her story is unbelievable. The shingles attack hit out of the blue, she was in good health with no chronic conditions or meds. Unfortunately, the shingles affected one of her eyes, and the rash developed on her eye and on her scalp. Her eye was swollen shut for two months, and fortunately she isn't blind, which is one possible consequence of shingles when it affects the eyes (optic nerve). Her symptoms were just unbelievable, including pain in her head that felt like roofing nails being pounded into her skull, a rash on her scalp that made it impossible to shower and wash her hair due to the extreme pain, and now a compromised immune system from the shingles where she contracted poison ivy (from an unknown source) with 1" blisters, bronchitis, conjunctivitis, and stomach flu. For her, the pain in her scalp and eye is not gone, and her doctor indicates that it's possible that the nerve damage from the shingles will never go away completely and there is no prediction about when her immune system will return to "normal." Just an unbelievable shingles attack. Get the vaccine. She is 62.

[newenglandgirl]

Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming

If someone graduates from college at 22 and retires at 65 that allows forty-three years of work. I can't even imagine living where I don't wish to live or working in some profession I don't like for that time in order to have more money when I'm nearing the end of life. No wonder so many here hate their work if they've done this with their lives. I find it difficult to believe that people who are not living the lives they wish live as long as those who do.

What an odious prospect! If we don't find fulfillment and joy in life what's the point of living? And we spend more of our lives working and commuting to work than anything else. I love money, both for what it buys and for the sheer pleasure of making it. But no amount of money could convince me to lead a life I don't want to lead.

I'm curious; am I the weird one? If I am that would explain why I don't hate working. It would also explain why people often want to retire as young as possible and why so many want to move. It certainly explains why there are far more accidents during the evening rush hour than during the morning. They're in no hurry to get to work; they're in a big hurry to get away. I always said that living in the West meant that I was on vacation all of the time; I guess it's true.

No you are not the weird one. This is perhaps the first post of yours with which I fully agree. That said, there are life circumstances that actually do prevent some people from "doing what they love" and "living where they love." #$%& happens. But overall, I agree.

[newenglandgirl]

NEG said:Secure boomers are seeing things only through their own lens.

And which Boomers would that be? The ones who slogged their way through a 71% FICA tax increase to ensure Social Security would be there for them?

Or the Boomers who acted smartly with their money, budgeting, saving, planning and using credit wisely to their advantage, instead of to their disadvantage?

There is no law or statute that says you must spend $120/month on cable/internet. You can, if you so desire, put that $120/month in savings account.

There is no law or statute that says you have put 0% and finance a car for 72 months and get upside down on the loan. You can, if you so desire, put 10% down and finance it for 18 to 24 months.

So why don't you? Oh, I forgot, it's Generation Me, Myself and I and Generation Gimme, Gimme, Gimme. They waste a lot of money, but then they adore and worship the Disposable Society, do they not?

Factually...

Mircea

----------------

You assume I am making a judgement here when I am making none. I am simply making an observation that "secure boomers see things only through their own lens." As does everyone else. This is not to conclude that their observations constitute truth. I am not insecure, by the way, being as careful perhaps as you in terms of spending and saving and frugality. So are many of the boomers who may have fell short of being as secure as the secure boomers assume all boomers to be. No one who has led a careful path is more virtuous or less so than others who have done so.

[Huckleberry3911948]

46% of americans work FTE. old dad is carrying the show but not even that bek our government spends 40% more than it takes in.
the real problem is not enough worker bees and too many people that wana free ride.
the worker bees are old, archie bunker is old and tired but those that he carries are demanding more of him while they blame his for all their shortcomings. this too will pass. history has been rewritten, according to the new historians archie bunker never accomplished anything. his contributions mean nothing. it was all a ripoff and exploitation, or so they say. wait til the lights go out on archie bunker and we shall see what snoop dog, rosie o'donnell and beavis and butthead do for the country.

[TuborgP]

Originally Posted by Escort Rider

Well, one of the "recommended for old people shots" is the vaccine for shingles. I had that one at age 65 as recommended, on my own initiative, not my doctor's. Sticking with just that one example for a moment, I am wondering if you have ever spoken to some who has had shingles? If so, you have already heard about how painful it can be, and how long it can last. If you should ever get shingles, and I hope you don't, then let's meet back here and discuss whether you regret not getting the vaccine, or if you still hold to your paranoia about "old people shots".

Yeah I am in the process of seeing if my coverage includes shingle shots. Other wise I will just pay my doctor $200 for the shot. I talked to my doctor yesterday and they asked me and I said I would check and I should have just scheduled it anyway so I should be getting one next week.

[TuborgP]

The funny thing is that whenever any of my sons took a new job one of the first things I asked them was about their 401(K), who handled the plan, was their a match by the employer and what were their investment opportunities and who managed it along with how it compared with other offers. They always knew the answer and it was a factor in their decision making along with other considerations.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by newenglandgirl

I am simply making an observation that "secure boomers see things only through their own lens."

There's nothing wrong with those lenses. A lot of people want Boomers to spend enormous amounts of money replacing the propeller on a sinking ship whose engine doesn't even work.

Does that make sense? No, so why do it?

The World is changing. Things are changing. Everyone is going to have to learn to adapt to those changes, and in particular, everyone is going to have to learn and accept the Reality™ of doing less with less.

There is nothing that can be done, except to sit back and wait. If you had a Time Machine™ you could go back in time and tell the GI Generation and the Silent Generation not to muck things up for everyone else (which is what they did).

Originally Posted by newenglandgirl

So are many of the boomers who may have fell short of being as secure as the secure boomers assume all boomers to be. No one who has led a careful path is more virtuous or less so than others who have done so.

And that is why there is an insurance program called Social Security. If everyone could predict the future, and if everyone had a Beautiful Life™ then Social Security wouldn't be needed.

The New Reality™ is that everyone will have to do things differently, so pining for the Old Days™ is about the dumbest thing people can do.

Observing....

Mircea