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Greed consisted of taking all the fun and adventure and leaving the next generation with a wishful hope of having been a boomer...Most of the kids these days through the net will say "You guys got all the good music..all we got was a bunch of techno weasels with no talent and a computer...
My definition of greedy would be someone who takes his/her wealth at the expense of others. Like Bernard Madoff, Arthur Anderson, Ken Lay or Jeffery Grayson. These people didn't need to steal other people's savings, they had plenty. But it was all a game to them to take as much as they could from anyone they could.
That to me is the ultimate act of greed. I don't think people who aspire to own things they have worked for are greedy. Whether you wish to own a McMansion or a Yurt if you have worked for it, I don't see anything wrong in having it.
I have four step children who are Gen Xers and we put all of them through school, too.
I have many friends who hubby and I sat down with and helped them figure out the finances and what decisions they could make with their kids as far as further education.
Your scenario is more of the same whine with the politics of grievance that so many folks seem to think gives them an excuse to fail - or rely on the government to "fix it for them."
Not everyone should be getting a college degree - at least, not straight out of high school. If they are extremely bright, it won't matter that momma is single and poor and it won't matter what color they are, either. In fact, that might work to their advantage (minority; poor) . . . they will get scholarships/grants. But they have to apply for them.
Anyone can get an education. It's just a matter of -- "how bad do you want it?" and "what are you willing to do to get it?"
Here is what some of my son's friends have done. One went to community college, worked part time stocking groceries, got a 2 year tech degree, couldn't find a full time job, so worked PRN in his field at 2 hospitals while continuing to stock groceries. Then he started on his BS, ON LINE. It has taken 4 years to get that 2 year degree, but he will be finishing up this summer. Now, he is not only in line for a full time job as a tech -- he is going to be qualified to move up in management once he gets his BS. He is making $23/hour PRN and $12/hr at the grocery store. Damn right it has been hard work. But he has no debt, will soon have his BS and is in line for a full time job at one of the hospitals where he takes call.
Another friend, minority btw, didn't have anyone to help her at all with further education after high school. She didn't want to be saddled with debt so she did not even apply for student loans. She got a massage therapy degree at the local community college. Another friend went straight into the Marine Reserves after high school and is now finishing up his AB, while still in the Reserves and working part time with a big box store, in between deployments (has been 2 Afghanistan 2 x so far).
Another friend decided to become a licensed electrician, so he moved to a different state and went thru/ a mentoring program w/ a large "shop" - and is now making over $60K a year, rehabbing fast food stores as part of a crew.
I could go on and on. Dental Hygiene. Respiratory Therapy. Ultrasound Tech. CNA. HVAC tech. You do what you have to do to get to the next stage. You build towards the degree and career you want and the added maturity works to your advantage. By they time you are 28 or so, you are in essentially the same position as all the kids who got out of school at 22 and couldn't find a job doing a thing with their photography, business, communications, history, WHATEVER degree -- or who landed a low paying entry level job at 23 and have worked at it several years and finally are making more than $15 an hour.
The Gen Y kids I know are the most innovative, openminded, accepting, curious folks I have known (as a group). I have mentored several of them - helped them get their own businesses started. Yes - they are principals now of their own LLCs at 26-28 - and making decent salaries.
People who don't think outside the student loan box are destined to the whims of the market and the limitations they have created for themselves. It is up to Boomers, who had to figure it out for themselves more often than not, to guide this younger generation and help them find some options for creatively establishing stable lives.
There will always be limitations for any group of people at any point in time. Successful people - and I mean those who successfully manage their lives (we all hit stumbling blocks but have to overcome them!) . . . those are the ones who will manage to establish decent lives for themselves and their children. Starting out with a "no way" attitude is going to reap just that . . . disappointment and failure.
Im sorry if telling you what it's like in the real world sounds like complaining to you. Also I wouldn't consider people from 26-28 to even be a part of this current Gen Y group. They were in there mid 20s before the recession hit. It's not like they were 15 in 2008 and not even old enough to get a job yet.
On the point of such definitions:
In the context of this thread and the world in general...
the sort of middle class hard earned assets and security being described as wealth... just ain't.
Sorta funny how so often we want to define reality as being the world we see and feel anyone elses sense of reality isn't. Could it be that is the reality of their world and the two worlds are different?
Greed is a learned thing, from some individuals and sectors in previous generations (well hidden then - you think greed is new?), from our public leaders, from corporations and banks, all fanned by the news media and entertainment industry.
So why the need to play the blame game? Where does that get us? Idle talk.
Where are the solutions?
For starters, tuition at public universities is too damn high. Tuition increases should be resisted. Colleges should be forced to live within their means. New building construction should be seriously reviewed. Ideally, the public would be up in arms literally screaming at the board of regents to not raise tuition by any amount higher than rate of inflation. If some quality has to be sacrificed, than so be it. We are at a point where higher education is becoming unaffordable for anyone who isn't wealthy.
I seriously toy with the idea of a special tax imposed on all persons 50 years of age and older. Perhaps, we all ought to pay an additional 1% on our income tax just to reflect some of the generational breaks we got that subsequent generations are not getting. This money ought to go into the social security and medicare funds, so we could stop draining future generations so much to pay for our own needs.
Perhaps, some age discrimination laws ought to repealed. It might give some younger people a crack at some jobs that currently aren't open to them.
Younger people ought to be taught more about entrepreneurship. The only way we are going to solve this problem of too many graduates for too few jobs is to get some people to create their own jobs and businesses.
Are you lead to believe that this is what Generation Y is claiming? Far from it, I think many would be quite content to be able to afford a cheap apartment and an entry level job. Even those minimal goals are elusive in today's economy.
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Expecting to buy one when you just get out of college is ridiculous.
Probably so, but my wife and I bought our first house when I started practicing law at age 25. Our wedding present covered most of the "closing costs". We paid for the rest of the house ourselves. We moved to a larger home one year later and now own the house outright. I'm not bragging. I am saying that in the past this goal was not as difficult as one might think.
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Maybe if they weren't babied and spoiled for their entire life, they'd get out of their parent's home and live with some roommates in an apartment and take a job they apparently think is beneath them.
What planet do you live on? My son and his friends ask for nothing other than a chance. My son worked serving fast food for 3 years before I told him I wanted him to concentrate on his studies at the University. He never once complained to me about his work. His bosses like him too. I met them and I know it.
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At 25 years old they are still on their parent's health insurance, for crying out loud.
Let's see. A typical health insurance premium for someone who can't get health insurance at work (typical for low paid entry level positions) is about $5,000 to $7,000 a year. Kind of tough to pay that when your net income is all of about $9,000 after state and federal taxes. There really are about two alternatives. You either legislate a solution as the Affordable Care Act does which mandates coverage for people in this age group. Or, two you let these people take their chances "going bare" or not buying health insurance. Actually, #2 isn't the worst solution in the world. Most people in their twenties don't need much healthcare. However, occasionally someone in that group has a major medical emergency and if they are to be treated than someone has to pay for it. At least this way, its a private health insurer and not the taxpayers.
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Why don't we just have car seats for 21 year olds and buckle them in with helmets and knee pads. I don't know about you but I knew plenty of kids who owed on their student loans after college. Get a job and pay it off.
You need a serious reality check. Its obvious you don't have a 20 year old student living with you. Most young people who went to school are paying off student loans--and likely will be for many years to come.
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If illegal aliens can find work, so can they.
Don't be so sure. Many have headed back to Mexico.
For starters, tuition at public universities is too damn high. Tuition increases should be resisted. Colleges should be forced to live within their means. New building construction should be seriously reviewed. Ideally, the public would be up in arms literally screaming at the board of regents to not raise tuition by any amount higher than rate of inflation. If some quality has to be sacrificed, than so be it. We are at a point where higher education is becoming unaffordable for anyone who isn't wealthy.
I seriously toy with the idea of a special tax imposed on all persons 50 years of age and older. Perhaps, we all ought to pay an additional 1% on our income tax just to reflect some of the generational breaks we got that subsequent generations are not getting. This money ought to go into the social security and medicare funds, so we could stop draining future generations so much to pay for our own needs.
Perhaps, some age discrimination laws ought to repealed. It might give some younger people a crack at some jobs that currently aren't open to them.
Younger people ought to be taught more about entrepreneurship. The only way we are going to solve this problem of too many graduates for too few jobs is to get some people to create their own jobs and businesses.
Not evaluating the appropriateness of what you are saying but do you really want age discrimination laws to be repealed and tax policy to be age based? What would be next after that for us seniors? Not sure a lot of my contemporaries would agree that they got a generational break. Especially those who remained in the south. I am sure there would then be those who would advocate ethnicity and religious belief taxes as they believe some folks have gotten a break based on those considerations. As far as tution costs go it is agreed they are out of control but Universities are in competition for the top students and many of them have the ability to pay the tuition increases. It is a real challenge for some major state universities as they are often charged with retaining top students from their state for post graduation employment and for recruiting those from other states. They can really kiss the rear end of top students wanting to major in difficult majors experiencing a shortage. It is often those students who down the road become some of their top fund raising folks and all schools want and need them.
Not evaluating the appropriateness of what you are saying but do you really want age discrimination laws to be repealed and tax policy to be age based?
I'm not sure. I think its a reasonable idea. I think the money should be earmarked for things elderly people need like social security and medicare. In other words, we should do more to take care of our own needs.
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What would be next after that for us seniors? Not sure a lot of my contemporaries would agree that they got a generational break.
I look at it this way. We do allow housing discrimination in favor of the elderly. That's the concept of the 55 and older community. Maybe discrimination should cut both ways.
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As far as tution costs go it is agreed they are out of control but Universities are in competition for the top students and many of them have the ability to pay the tuition increases. It is a real challenge for some major state universities as they are often charged with retaining top students from their state for post graduation employment and for recruiting those from other states. They can really kiss the rear end of top students wanting to major in difficult majors experiencing a shortage. It is often those students who down the road become some of their top fund raising folks and all schools want and need them.
If they want these students great. Find a way to do it without making my son's college tuition sky high. I'm ready to shoot the SOBs raising tuition by leaps and bounds.
I'm not sure. I think its a reasonable idea. I think the money should be earmarked for things elderly people need like social security and medicare. In other words, we should do more to take care of our own needs.
I look at it this way. We do allow housing discrimination in favor of the elderly. That's the concept of the 55 and older community. Maybe discrimination should cut both ways.
If they want these students great. Find a way to do it without making my son's college tuition sky high. I'm ready to shoot the SOBs raising tuition by leaps and bounds.
My contemporaries are not necessarily living in active 55 communities and might resent having marched and demonstrated only to be taxed additionally for their success. I mean a lot of us boomers of all races had to overcome a lot to get where we are and might not feel they were given a lot of breaks. Not sure that military vets who saw combat would agree they were given a special break. Especially the early Boomers who had the joy of the draft and Nam. I know a lot of young people who had it much better than their parents and are thriving as a result of their parents. Others had great parents and are finding life more of a challenge. It was never easy but at some point we developed expectations of moving out of the house and having our own place and perhaps we need to rethink how soon that happens. College tution costs are a tricky thing as climbing walls might be what is necessary to attract top student who can afford to pay the bills and thats who every college wants. Probably the easiest way to cap tuition increases is to cut the amount of money available for student loans and to make the process competitive and based on the needs of society for that major. Unlimited funds chasing tuition rates is never going to contain increases. It will only happen when we cap the available funds that can be borrowed to pay them. Look at housing costs and the supply of money available to pay during the boom and now during the bust. The ability to qualify for has changed dramatically and the cost of housing is contained.
Last edited by TuborgP; 07-23-2012 at 08:25 PM..
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