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Old 11-05-2012, 06:10 AM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 21,915,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
One of the major problems with emergency management of this size and scope is that it involves incorporating people who don't do this within the scope of their normal duty. It assumes people will be available and interested in saving others and performing jobs they normally don't and may have no interest in doing.
imo, places with that high a density population need to annually budget for major disaster plan and personnel; it is the embedded cost of living in such areas. I'm sure that with all the graft in NJ, they can find the money to do that, adding many jobs to the economy at the same time.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:17 AM
 
Location: Virginia
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Plus some ideas won't work out as well as you think when you actually try them. Using the stadium in New Orleans seemed like a really good idea before they tried it, for example.

I'm a big fan of emergency preparation but I also understand that resources are limited and you can only do so much. If NY and NJ had spent billions and billions building state of the art sea barriers and shelters right up until this storm people would have been screaming about "wasting tax payers money" and "why do they keep raising my taxes to build things that aren't needed."
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:17 AM
 
342 posts, read 715,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
Yes you are right, I was comparing apples and oranges. The population density is low where i am and so schools and municipal buildings serve as shelters up to a week at a time or a little more. NY/NJ with their vast population have a humongous challenge. I think however that my bigger point is that these areas have to have an orderly plan of some kind that does the best they can with what they have. Everyone can have access to that plan with evacuation routes and marked shelters online. People should have their own backup plans like many do in the north - like what friend or relative can take you in, and is your car already packed and ready, etc. The huge fly in the ointment of disaster preparedness is gasoline. If that prohibits transportation which is usually does, then people need to learn how to tough it out in place, with checkups on the elderly and infirm. A disaster preparedness course could also be included in the h.s. curriculum as survival is becoming a subject of interest these days.
The NY Metro area is so densely populated that in reality an evacuation plan is a joke. Major traffic jams everyday throughout the region are the norm. I can't even imagine the gridlock if much of the area had to evacuate in a relatively short period. One of the reasons we moved to western Jersey when we retired was to get away from the traffic.

In NYC, many people don't own cars, so they have no way to evacuate. Getting enough buses in place would be next to impossible. There are many people living in high rise apartment buildings with no power - for the elderly, that becomes another big problem.

Even in our less densely populated area, most people did stock up on food and gas before the storm, leaving stores with little food. Many supermarkets in this area are still not open and probably half the gas stations don't have power. We were better off than most, since we have a wood burning fireplace, which we kept going 24/7 - put a tarp over the room opening, so at least that room was bearable. People with generators had trouble finding gas, and there's a limit to how much gas you would want to store in a home, so even that became a problem. We are on public water and sewer, but many people that live in the more rural towns around here are on wells and septic - thus they have no running water when the power is out. Many in this area still don't have power, so even water becomes an issue.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:52 AM
 
31,672 posts, read 40,924,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
imo, places with that high a density population need to annually budget for major disaster plan and personnel; it is the embedded cost of living in such areas. I'm sure that with all the graft in NJ, they can find the money to do that, adding many jobs to the economy at the same time.
NY and NY have serious budget deficits and each governor has been doing some serious budget cutting. Also what will really perhaps as things emerge become a real controversy especially in Jersey is the role of privatization of government functions/services in times of disaster.
http://www.state.nj.us/governor/news...20100709a.html
Quote:
Trenton, NJ - Governor Chris Christie today welcomed the report of the New Jersey Privatization Task Force calling it a path to a more efficient, cost-effective government. The report identifies more than $200 million in potential cost savings from across state agencies.

"In March, I asked the Privatization Task Force to develop a strategy that would reduce the size, scope and cost of state government," said Governor Christie. "What they have provided is a path for change that will benefit New Jersey's taxpayers through improvements in the quality of public service programs and services delivered to our citizens without placing further burdens upon the State budget. I look forward to further reviewing these recommendations."

Overall, privatization has been used effectively by the federal government, other states and by some New Jersey State departments and municipalities, resulting in efficiencies and cost savings for labor and technology, competitive procurement improvements, enhanced timeliness and increased access to outside expertise and innovation for these organizations.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:58 AM
 
31,672 posts, read 40,924,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caladium View Post
Plus some ideas won't work out as well as you think when you actually try them. Using the stadium in New Orleans seemed like a really good idea before they tried it, for example.

I'm a big fan of emergency preparation but I also understand that resources are limited and you can only do so much. If NY and NJ had spent billions and billions building state of the art sea barriers and shelters right up until this storm people would have been screaming about "wasting tax payers money" and "why do they keep raising my taxes to build things that aren't needed."
Yup and a double yup. Why prepare and spend tax dollars for a storm that only happens once in a century and hasn't for 99 years. Hmmmmmmmm?
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Virginia
18,717 posts, read 30,979,760 times
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Robyn, you reminder me of the guy on the Allstate commercial who is so determined to win an argument that he starts saying silly things like "Well his dog is stupid."

I'll comment on a few things, mostly because you're continue to say some things that are factual errors and I'll make one less attempt to set it straight. You can continue with the "well his dog is stupid" comments if you wish, or claiming total nonsense like I drove 100 miles out of my way, but IMO it's time to give it a rest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
After Andrew - some people "put their pets down" - because they didn't have enough to feed themselves - much less their pets.
Well, she did have a gun, I suppose she could have shot her dogs if things had really gotten that desperate. Fortunately, things weren't that desperate.

And do you really want to suggest someone do that? Really? Really???????

Please think about what it would be like to pick up a gun, look at your beloved dogs in the eyes, and shoot them. Your dogs who have been with you through thick and thin. Picture yourself shooting one after another. I don't think you could do it. It's one thing to sit on your comfy couch and shoot off your moth about how you'd handle a situation--quite another to actually do something like that.

Especially when the actual solution was so much easier, she just needed someone to help her move them. Killing the dogs was never an option, and is a very extreme solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
Also - didn't the garage have a side door to get supplies out? I guess there are garages that only have "garage doors" - but I don't recall ever seeing one.
The side door was also obstructed. Trees in NY are not palm trees. They have extremely long and heavy side branches. When trees fall in hurricane force winds, those branches break and scatter all around the area. Although the branches are smaller than the trunk, many still weigh well over 100 pounds. Therefore even a relatively small branch obstructing a door needs to be cut up with a chainsaw. We could not get into the garage until we cut up the tree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
I also question whether someone who is apparently fairly helpless should have been living in the situation you described. Especially if she was unable (for any reason) to insure her property to a degree that she wouldn't lose it after a storm.
Well, if this is your argument I certainly hope that you are putting your house up for sale today and looking for assisted living, because you would not have been able to move those branches either. Just because you need help in an emergency situation does not mean you are so helpless that you can't live in your house anymore. Jeez, it's sad to think anyone feels that way. Could she have survived if I hadn't gone? Sure, people can survive a lot of miserable situations but there was no need to put a family member through that when I was in a position to help her. That's just the way my family is.

Insurance wasn't the issue in this case.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
Also - I assume from your narrative that you are extremely experienced with chainsaws and use them on a regular basis - like maybe once a month or more - yes?
Yes, I know how to use my chainsaw. In fact, I used it just before the storm to remove branches from my own trees. I discussed that in the beginning of this thread.

But even if I hadn't--there are many things I am quite capable of doing without needing to do them every month. I can ride a bicycle even though I don't do that every month. I can change a tire even though I don't do that every month. I was quite capable of remodeling my basement and putting up drywall even though I don't do that every month. In January I'll be quite capable of operating my snow blower even though I don't that every month. Etc. Etc. Etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
I guess the traffic up in the NE must be pretty terrible most of the time if you regularly go 100 miles out of your way to get from A to B.
LOL, now you're sounding more like someone from the POC forum than the guy on the Allstate commercial. I've already explained this nonsense about going 100 miles out of my way is not true. Apparently you think if you keep saying something enough times you make it true, but nope--it's still not true. The route I took is not 100 miles out of the way. It is the regular route that I take. The route is also not an 800 mile round trip. Not even close.
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:13 AM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 21,915,486 times
Reputation: 15773
Just watched the latest weather report. The Nor'easter coming across FLA and up the coast right into the shore that was devastated by Sandy. The waves perhaps 10 to 20 feet with several inches of rain and winds to 55 mph. The cold is descending on those devastated areas. And it isn't even winter yet. If I had another bathroom I would be inclined to take in a refugee from NY or NJ...if they could get here.
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:50 AM
 
342 posts, read 715,551 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
NY and NY have serious budget deficits and each governor has been doing some serious budget cutting. Also what will really perhaps as things emerge become a real controversy especially in Jersey is the role of privatization of government functions/services in times of disaster.
Office of the Governor | Newsroom
Good point Tuborg. This year there was a big scandal with NJ prisons, which had been outsourced to private companies. I'm too lazy right now to look up the articles, but it was a nightmare situation. In addition, many criminals were being released that shouldn't have. There is this assumption that private industry can always do it better, but sometimes that is just not true.

NJ is the highest taxed state (for property taxes) in the nation. Politicians are always promising to change that, but somehow it never happens. Our budget revenue right now is way below projections, and obviously this storm won't help. State pension fund also ridiculously underfunded. The highway fund has been raided to balance the budget, so I don't think we'll see any money put aside for emergencies anytime soon.
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:54 AM
 
342 posts, read 715,551 times
Reputation: 576
Here is just one example of what NYC is facing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/05/ny...stions.html?hp
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
5,294 posts, read 5,966,949 times
Reputation: 10833
Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
Just watched the latest weather report. The Nor'easter coming across FLA and up the coast right into the shore that was devastated by Sandy. The waves perhaps 10 to 20 feet with several inches of rain and winds to 55 mph. The cold is descending on those devastated areas. And it isn't even winter yet. If I had another bathroom I would be inclined to take in a refugee from NY or NJ...if they could get here.
Huh?
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