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Old 07-03-2013, 06:18 AM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 18,975,704 times
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I haven't thought about this issue but as we age it's coming more to the forefront. This article provides a lot of food for thought, looking forward to your responses.

Is it immoral to try to shield assets from Medicaid? - AgingCare.com
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Old 07-03-2013, 06:23 AM
 
Location: in the miseries
3,302 posts, read 3,579,794 times
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I wasn't able to access the link, but I think it is.
My parents didn't shield their assets, but spent them
down.
A LOT of people I know have put their assets in
irrevocable trusts. And their houses in
their children's names. They will be protected
as long as 5 years have gone by before
NH care is necessary.
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Old 07-03-2013, 06:30 AM
 
9,194 posts, read 9,273,624 times
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I guess we can argue over whether its immoral. As an attorney, I know people who have successfully done it by creating an irrevocable trust, years in advance of their incapacity or ill health.

There are risks you take when you do it. The creation of such a trust requires giving control of your assets to children or another third party. That third party may act wisely or they may not. You may need the assets and not be able to get access to them. There are plenty of risks involved in such an arrangement. I think, generally speaking, the risks aren't worth it. However, some will still try to do this anyway. Some will get burned in the process too.

I shouldn't do it. But a little chuckle sometimes escapes my lips when I learn of a situation where the assets were stolen by children or lost through some other mechanism. There is an expression in life that says: Don't outsmart yourself.

Its exactly what these people did when they put their assets in an irrevocable trust and gave up any control of them.
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Old 07-03-2013, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Florida
19,801 posts, read 19,900,285 times
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Immoral? Wrong word for me.
Unethical....yes, basically. Requiring a lack of pride and sense of responsibility? Yes.
IMO, part of planning for your retirement/ later years/old age, whichever applies, includes planning as best as you can, to take care of yourself a long as and well as you can.
That does not include hiding your assets so that your children can have them and the rest of the world has to pay for you.
This is becoming more and more of a very 'old fashioned' attitude in this country as there are more and more programs of government handouts ......enough so that it gets difficult not to say "The hell with it. Why not? "Everybody else is" , jump on the bandwagon to get "your share".

Stupid not to do so? Lately, it seems so.
Sustainable? How long before the wheels falls off that bandwagon? A discussion for a different forum.

Edited to add......this was based on only to leave assets to children....not a spouse,

Last edited by old_cold; 07-03-2013 at 07:13 AM..
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Old 07-03-2013, 06:57 AM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 18,975,704 times
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I don't understand how Medicaid works so I'm new to all this. I've read that there's a 5-year look-back period with disposing of assets. What I don't understand yet is whether Medicare (which I'm not on yet) pays for SNF/nursing home. But reading the two scenarios between family A and family B is really an eye-opener in terms of this issue. Why should Medicaid readily help family B? And the larger issue of course of how this is going to be sustained economically with the enormous wave of boomers and the unbelievable cost of care.
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Old 07-03-2013, 07:49 AM
 
Location: it depends
6,074 posts, read 5,334,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I guess we can argue over whether its immoral. As an attorney, I know people who have successfully done it by creating an irrevocable trust, years in advance of their incapacity or ill health.

There are risks you take when you do it. The creation of such a trust requires giving control of your assets to children or another third party. That third party may act wisely or they may not. You may need the assets and not be able to get access to them. There are plenty of risks involved in such an arrangement. I think, generally speaking, the risks aren't worth it. However, some will still try to do this anyway. Some will get burned in the process too.

I shouldn't do it. But a little chuckle sometimes escapes my lips when I learn of a situation where the assets were stolen by children or lost through some other mechanism. There is an expression in life that says: Don't outsmart yourself.

Its exactly what these people did when they put their assets in an irrevocable trust and gave up any control of them.
Great post.

Years ago, one of my siblings encouraged me to take up the Medicaid-shift with Mom. So I told Mom about the two plans, Plan A in which she protected the assets she and Dad had worked so hard for by transferring ownership to us kids. The other, Plan B, she keeps her money and uses it for her needs until it is gone.

Mom says, 'I just have one question. In Plan A, if I want to spend some of my own money do I need to come back to you and ask for it back?' I said "Yes" and she said "We'll be doing Plan B." We honored her wishes.
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Old 07-03-2013, 10:56 AM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,867,277 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I guess we can argue over whether its immoral. As an attorney, I know people who have successfully done it by creating an irrevocable trust, years in advance of their incapacity or ill health.

There are risks you take when you do it. The creation of such a trust requires giving control of your assets to children or another third party. That third party may act wisely or they may not. You may need the assets and not be able to get access to them. There are plenty of risks involved in such an arrangement. I think, generally speaking, the risks aren't worth it. However, some will still try to do this anyway. Some will get burned in the process too.

I shouldn't do it. But a little chuckle sometimes escapes my lips when I learn of a situation where the assets were stolen by children or lost through some other mechanism. There is an expression in life that says: Don't outsmart yourself.

Its exactly what these people did when they put their assets in an irrevocable trust and gave up any control of them.
Bada Bing
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Old 07-03-2013, 10:58 AM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,867,277 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
I don't understand how Medicaid works so I'm new to all this. I've read that there's a 5-year look-back period with disposing of assets. What I don't understand yet is whether Medicare (which I'm not on yet) pays for SNF/nursing home. But reading the two scenarios between family A and family B is really an eye-opener in terms of this issue. Why should Medicaid readily help family B? And the larger issue of course of how this is going to be sustained economically with the enormous wave of boomers and the unbelievable cost of care.
It isn't sustainable in my opinion and we have previously discussed my plans,
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 18,975,704 times
Reputation: 15649
So...what about other reasons seniors are shielding their assets and how?
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Old 07-03-2013, 02:39 PM
 
Location: The South
5,225 posts, read 3,635,618 times
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I'm not going to shield my assets. I intend to spend my savings for my wife and myself. We want that big private room down at the end of the nursing home, you know, its the one that Medicaid won't cover.
Any body visited a nursing home lately to see someone staying there courtesy of Medicaid?
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