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Old 03-31-2008, 12:29 PM
GLS GLS started this thread
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brightdoglover View Post
Actually, I was serious! But I meant something like an Erickson community, which I gather can be rather low on the walkers and dementias and all.
I'm in no hurry to lose my dream house, and it's not too big for older age. It's about 1250 sq.ft., first floor bedroom and main bath (by design), and I already pay a guy to do the lawn/landscaping and he's also my handyman. It's perfect- he's the guy who built the house and he lives down the street. He comes over regularly to check the sump pump, suggest different upkeep things, etc. I think he feels bad that I'm not married or something, but he's better than a husband!
I do think I was thinking more of some kind of condo living with a staff available. The Erickson communities sound pretty good, but although they are 62+, I do think the average age is pretty high.
I was picturing being able to lock my door and go live in Utah or Colorado for a couple of months and not have a house to worry about. I am always trying to figure out how to spend the summers somewhere besides the humid East.
Tongue in cheek, no. Misspoken, yes.
Thanks for supplying some context. My comments probably spring from a difference in definitions of what constitutes "assisted living", coupled with my skewed experience. First, you are describing what in California would be termed "senior apartments" or "active adult living" or "independent living", or some other euphemism. In these arrangements they supply the things you mention. That is, inside and outside maintenance, help with coordinating transportation, recreational activities, etc. However, the commonality is that the resident retains all decision making and usually is totally independent in contracting for services.

In contrast, "Assisted living" here usually implies one step down from skilled nursing (SNF care). This may include "maid services", but the two biggest functions are coordination of meals (usually in a common dining room) and medication administration. In California these facilities are classified as "non-medical" to distinguish from SNFs. HOWEVER, in reality the level of acuity is such that these residents would have be placed in SNFs twenty years ago. Even though they are classified as "non-medical", the facility can apply for a waiver to take patients with ostomies, contractures, dementia, etc. Under general licensing requirements, an "Adult Residential Facility" is defined as any facility which provides 24-hour nonmedical care and supervision to adults, except elderly persons". The operative word here is supervision. You can see that this implies much more loss of independence than you were referring to.

Now to clarify my experience. In 14 years, I consulted with over 1000 "assisted living facilities". A few were very clean, staffed with caring people, and filled with artwork and Ethan Allan furniture. However, more often I was called like the exorcist to figure out why the residents were in danger. I investigated questionable suicides. I found one facility with forty residents being fed only soup made with two packages of Ramen and some wilted carrots. I identified a violent alcoholic resident that snuck out to the liquor store and returned drunk to physically and sexually abuse the other residents. I uncovered staff stealing the Vicodin and other narcotic analgesics from terminally ill patients, only to leave them writhing in pain, while the staff took or sold the drugs. Without waxing melodramatic, I hope you can see that my particular experiences make me a little less than objective.

Finally, since you are a Nurse on a psych unit, you will appreciate the clinical risks of over-medicating patients with polypharmacy with multiple antipsychotics and benzodiazepines. Now add the fact that these "assisted living" facilities are classified "non-medical". What this means is that they are not mandated to hire licensed Nurses to monitor drug efficacy or side effects. The staff member passing Haldol today may be the same person that was asking a customer last week, "Do you want fries with that order".

Just so you don't think I'm too cynical, working with others we have been able to implement some improvements. When a facility is threatened with penalties or closure by the State we have been able to mandate a "Corrective Action Plan" or compliance plan. We have been able to force a few to hire a Nurse or a consultant pharmacist to make onsite visits.

Sorry for the rant. However, now you can see why I know you are not ready for one of the "Assisted Living facilities" in my world.
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Old 04-01-2008, 12:53 AM
 
402 posts, read 937,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Many investment vehicles provide there own tax sheltering. My portfolio is fully sheltered and extends it's sheltering out over most of my pension as well.

I use Residential Rentals.

As you mention Munies shelter themselves.
Forestbookeeper...I guess I need to ask my CPA, but give me an idea how you pay zero income taxes based on rental properties. I have one rental property now.

The other question is do have a hard time finding a rental property that will generate income or pay for itself right after purchase. I know that I do...I just gave up on it. The mortgae was higher than what I could get in rent.
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Old 04-01-2008, 01:50 AM
 
16,437 posts, read 19,138,131 times
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The OP was how much do I plan to retire on. It will be about $3000 a month for the first four years (today's money) and will increase to about $4000 a month when mandatory 401K and IRA withdrawals kick in at 70 1/2. My wife's spousal benefit will come into play about 8 years after that which will add another $1000. This reality is why health care is such an issue for us. We are slicing it thin and I'm running out of useful working life (it's getting harder to answer the call every day).
All this assuming SS doesn't belly up and my 401K/IRA administrator doesn't abscond to Aruba with all the money...

"You know, I don't really mind being poor; it's just so inconvenient..." an elderly neighbor to me many years ago.

Last edited by Bideshi; 04-01-2008 at 02:02 AM..
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Old 04-01-2008, 01:55 AM
 
402 posts, read 937,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckhead_Broker View Post
If you'd like a lesson on how to get to my planet, just let me know. I'm always glad to see people prosper!
I'd like to know.
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Old 04-01-2008, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,682 posts, read 49,449,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYLifes2shrt View Post
Forestbookeeper...I guess I need to ask my CPA, but give me an idea how you pay zero income taxes based on rental properties. I have one rental property now.

The other question is do have a hard time finding a rental property that will generate income or pay for itself right after purchase. I know that I do...I just gave up on it. The mortgae was higher than what I could get in rent.
Straight-line depreciation helps a great deal.

A schedule 'E' is like a balance sheet. All rental income, all local taxes, mortgage payments, and operating expenses.

I have been told that some landlords have a problem getting them to break even.

I can see where a Single-Family-Residence is never going to break even. You simply do not have enough rental income coming in to cover everything.

I have looked at Du-plexes; but they too would only be able to cover themselves on a 'good' month.

Multi-Family-Residences [like 5-plexes, 8-plexes, 20-plexes] have worked out well for us.

Some times a guy gets one, he focuses on cosmetics and tried to flip it quick. He will usually try to raise the purchase price to way too high, up where your income would never cover expenses.

We have been able to shop and find MFRs that have been workable. The income from two units can usually cover the mortgage payments. The third unit for the local taxes, garbage, water, sewer. One unit for my family to live in [which gives us a much sweater deal with the bank]. And the other units give you cash to make repairs with.

For us it has usually been the depreciation that brings the schedule 'E' down into seriously negative numbers.
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Old 04-01-2008, 11:24 AM
 
16,092 posts, read 36,576,539 times
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You can have up to $25,000 in deductions from your ordinary income on Schedule E up to a certain income amount, anyone able to verify?
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Old 04-01-2008, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,682 posts, read 49,449,101 times
Reputation: 19134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakewooder View Post
You can have up to $25,000 in deductions from your ordinary income on Schedule E up to a certain income amount, anyone able to verify?
Sounds about right, and a schedule 'E' does not fall under the rule-of-thumb suggesting that you show a profit so many years out of five.
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Old 04-01-2008, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Sahuarita
4 posts, read 8,293 times
Reputation: 10
You should call someone at PCOA - Pima Council on Aging or maybe even consider volunteering at their office for a few hours and you will really get a behind the scenes invaluable experience and first hand knowledge of what our seniors are experiencing with what their current retired income is.
It is disheartening and outrageous to see how much they need us and how ill-equipped Tucson is in helping our seniors and how ill-prepared the majority of us, and our youth really are.
PCOA's website is [url=http://www.pcoa.org]PCOA (Tucson, Az) - Home[/url]
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Old 04-01-2008, 04:17 PM
 
402 posts, read 937,580 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Straight-line depreciation helps a great deal.

A schedule 'E' is like a balance sheet. All rental income, all local taxes, mortgage payments, and operating expenses.

I have been told that some landlords have a problem getting them to break even.

I can see where a Single-Family-Residence is never going to break even. You simply do not have enough rental income coming in to cover everything.

I have looked at Du-plexes; but they too would only be able to cover themselves on a 'good' month.

Multi-Family-Residences [like 5-plexes, 8-plexes, 20-plexes] have worked out well for us.

Some times a guy gets one, he focuses on cosmetics and tried to flip it quick. He will usually try to raise the purchase price to way too high, up where your income would never cover expenses.

We have been able to shop and find MFRs that have been workable. The income from two units can usually cover the mortgage payments. The third unit for the local taxes, garbage, water, sewer. One unit for my family to live in [which gives us a much sweater deal with the bank]. And the other units give you cash to make repairs with.

For us it has usually been the depreciation that brings the schedule 'E' down into seriously negative numbers.
Thanks for the info! I am seeing my CPA tomorrow and pay attention to that more. I think what I learned is I need to gain more tax knowledge as you have. I have been counting my CPA for everything and just let him make the decisions. I don't remember if in 2006 there was a decpreciation loss taken on my property...prob did, but that's how much I wasn't aware.

In new york to own 4 /5 plex is sooooooooooo costly!!! It's too scary to invest so much of what I have now into it....well have to think about this.
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:33 PM
 
4,948 posts, read 16,524,306 times
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i wish to have the house paid off-which will be in 3 years- Then have my pension, and S.S. and will wait on the S.S. and try to live on 38,000. and then work. it now does seem I may do this.Yes, I will have to watch money-
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