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I think many are not anticipating the higher cost of health care with aging, and how medical problems can also stifle their retirement.
My mother worked hard her whole life, saved her whole life, and died after being struck unexpectedly with cancer soon after her retirement. She had a good savings, but never enjoyed any of it.
My father was hit by a car and paralyzed when he was 64, and was forced into "retirement" with huge health care costs due to his disability that are not covered by insurance.
Many of us will become disabled with age. Can you afford the move to a safer/accessible home/community, assisted living or a nursing home if needed? Can you afford to pay for caregivers/nurses to care for you at home instead? Expect to spend down all of your savings...
You never know what tomorrow will bring.
I am actually torn a little now. Part of me knows to save save save, as I see my father's desperate situation. Part of me also realizes you have to enjoy life now, as I look at my mother's early death. A balance is key.
Hyperbolic rants? Sorry to have irritated you so. Many doctors aren't accepting new Medicare patients these days (I'm 69 by the way...), so it's much the same as being uninsured. You are fortunate you are well off, and I hope life continues to treat you well. Not all are as fortunate.
I am fortunate to be middle class, but I am not well off. Thanks for your good wishes; I too hope life continues to threat me well. I have always been aware that not all are as fortunate as I am.
what is the point of an active forum if "new" people cant discuss matters. With that logic almost EVERY topic on the face of the planet has been beaten to death, so what. The new threads are what keep this board nice and fresh...I used to goto an automative message board when everyone would flame a new post saying "oh use the search function" eventually the message board became a ghost town.
1. New people can discuss anything they want.
2. I wasn't flaming. I was merely suggesting a way for the OP to find further reading on his topic in addition to whatever he may get in this present thread. Since this present thread has been very, very active, that suggestion has turned out to be superfluous, as he probably doesn't need to look elsewhere.
3. There is often an advantage to adding onto (reviving) an existing thread as opposed to repeating discussions which have already occurred. The new discussion remains "fresh".
4. I wan't using the false logic that every subject on the face of the planet has been beaten to death. I was referring to this Retirement Forum on City-Data.
This reminds me of the endless arguments in the Economics and Personal Finance Forums about what constitutes middle class, or upper middle class, or "getting by". People are talking past each other because a given dollar amount means different things in different cost-of-living locations. Living in New York City, Honolulu, or San Francisco (the three most expensive cities in the United States) is way different from living in Indianapolis or a host of other similar cities.
1. Housing Are granite counter-tops de rigeur? Are you the type to rip out perfectly good kitchen and bathrooms fixtures in order to have the latest "upgrades"? How many extra rooms do you need in addition to workshop space? Are two bathrooms enough for a married couple? Do you require a chi-chi neighborhood, or will a safe middle-class one do just fine?
2. Cars Is reliable transportation enough, or do you have a hang-up about impressing the neighbors? Do you require a BMW or similar? Or will a six-year-old Honda Civic fill the bill?
Amen to the part about cost-of-living in diff. parts of the country. I live in E. Mass. Very expensive here, if you want to live in a nice town. I could sell my "dump" here, that I bought in 1998 (when house prices were about 1/2 of what they are now here), move to Indianapolis, & buy what would be a mansion to many of us, & pocket $200K--$300K. The only catch? I'd have to live in.......Indianapolis.
Cars.....there are a lot of hard core BMW people who love BMW's. A lot of us have never bought a new one, & definitely aren't doing it to "impress the neighbors". I bought my current one 11 or 12 years ago, when it was 2 years old, & paid $34K (sure, you can pay a lot less for a used car). I've gotten a lot of pleasure out of that car, & have no plans to sell it soon. Some of my new neighbors (in new McMansions) have giant brand-new Mercedes things that must have cost $60-$70K.
But I get your point about excessive spending, "ripping out perfectly good kitchen and bathrooms fixtures in order to have the latest "upgrades", etc. I watch those house-hunting shows, & at least the younger buyers are obsessed with stainless-finish appliances, & granite. Even people out in the Hinterlands buying houses for $200K or even less. If they see a fairly nice, newer kitchen (way better than my POS kitchen), but it has (almost brand-new) white appliances, & no granite, they practically lose their minds, say it'd all have to be ripped out, & declare the house a "fixer"........
While I agree that TuborbP was mis-using the word "needs", it is also true that the boundary between wants and needs is a permeable one because it does tend to shift over time.
Strictly defined, our "needs" are very few: enough food and clean water to sustain us in reasonable health and enough protective clothing to keep us from freezing to death. We can add reasonable security from physical attack.
But as society has evolved, especially over the past 150 years or so, the normal person's conception of many wants has changed them into needs. I'll bet even MrRational would consider indoor plumbing a "need" in retirement, yet our species did without it for a couple of hundred thousand years and I have done without it on a few wilderness camping trips.
How about a telephone, either a land line or a cell phone? That is really a "need" for most people to live a normal life, yet telephones didn't even exist 120 years ago.
On the other hand, granite counter-tops, designer clothes, and cars costing over, say, $50,000 are not needs by any stretch of the imagination, and it is irritating and galling to hear spoiled rich people referring to them as needs.
Amen to the part about cost-of-living in diff. parts of the country. I live in E. Mass. Very expensive here, if you want to live in a nice town. I could sell my "dump" here, that I bought in 1998 (when house prices were about 1/2 of what they are now here), move to Indianapolis, & buy what would be a mansion to many of us, & pocket $200K--$300K. The only catch? I'd have to live in.......Indianapolis.
Cars.....there are a lot of hard core BMW people who love BMW's. A lot of us have never bought a new one, & definitely aren't doing it to "impress the neighbors". I bought my current one 11 or 12 years ago, when it was 2 years old, & paid $34K (sure, you can pay a lot less for a used car). I've gotten a lot of pleasure out of that car, & have no plans to sell it soon. Some of my new neighbors (in new McMansions) have giant brand-new Mercedes things that must have cost $60-$70K.
But I get your point about excessive spending, "ripping out perfectly good kitchen and bathrooms fixtures in order to have the latest "upgrades", etc. I watch those house-hunting shows, & at least the younger buyers are obsessed with stainless-finish appliances, & granite. Even people out in the Hinterlands buying houses for $200K or even less. If they see a fairly nice, newer kitchen (way better than my POS kitchen), but it has (almost brand-new) white appliances, & no granite, they practically lose their minds, say it'd all have to be ripped out, & declare the house a "fixer"........
Have to laugh when we were selling our house it cost us about 20K for cosmetics etc and one buyer wanted a new kitchen and was the low bidder. We were lucky to get buy selling with our 20 year old counter tops and cabinets. Appliances were new and they had to be to sell but many others in the market would put 40-60K in to upgrade their house especially the kitchen if they hadn't already.
But I get your point about excessive spending, "ripping out perfectly good kitchen and bathrooms fixtures in order to have the latest "upgrades", etc. I watch those house-hunting shows, & at least the younger buyers are obsessed with stainless-finish appliances, & granite. Even people out in the Hinterlands buying houses for $200K or even less. If they see a fairly nice, newer kitchen (way better than my POS kitchen), but it has (almost brand-new) white appliances, & no granite, they practically lose their minds, say it'd all have to be ripped out, & declare the house a "fixer"........
The funny thing is that these trends turn over quickly. Stainless/granite is already on the way out, and then their flashy new kitchen will look "dated", and they will wonder about upgrades...
Functional, classic design with good quality materials, well maintained..... will always be in style. In clothes, decor, cars.... life. And it saves you a ton of money in the long run, and you appear savvy, sophisticated and smart!
You and others can but count me out. We define needs differently and I accept that. For some sending their kids to high end schools with affluent parents and kids is a need and many would agree with that while others wouldn't. Thus also goes the way of retirement planning and implementation. We have different world views on retirement and the role of wants and needs.
Anyone can justify a want as a need, as everyone knows. I "need" peace and quiet but the truth is I can function without it and it is only a want magnified into a need. Of course everyone's wants are specific to them, but they are also culturally influenced.
I should add that early on, I thought I needed a $1 million in order to retire. As time went by and our sources of retirement income became clearer and we had a better idea of what retirement expenses would be, that amount was reduced and the date of my retirement became earlier. Over the years, I've reduced the $1 million 3 times (to $650k, then $500k and to where it is now), and reduced my retirement age from 67 to 60. We're lucky in that we both have pensions with health coverage.
I think anyone who has retired and especially retired very long see just now many assumptions turn out to be false in their retirement. That is not to say that planning isn't wise. I'd say one glaring assumption I have seen is risk and the difference it can make when retired with no new income coming in for most versus say recovery when having new income to invest .I know that if I didn't have other sources of income coming in withdrawing while recovering from market investment would have meant a huge difference. Still I see that I have loss at least four years of growth based on loses. Its really a mix of good and bad on assumptions and in my cases unintend good consequences I never really planned on in where gains where made.I know many who on basic assumptions have loss five years in when they can retire and others who are stretched more than thought when retiring and often at least return to work at least part time to make up.
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False conclusion
