Aging and life choice considerations for seniors who are less than wealthy (dump, states)

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by newenglandgirl

Indeed I did.
...
To be explicit, I live in a very high COL state. We own our home with no mortgage and bought low, hope to sell high and make a significant profit. ...

From another angle, the property taxes here are quite high compared with many states outside of New England. So we get lower property tax in another state, ...

So all the financial considerations around relocation in retirement have to be examined carefully and realistically, not just on the surface.

Not EZ choice, and not ez to strictly calculate. BUT if possible to move...lower cost state can be really good for Shoestring retirement. Especially if you had planned to harvest tax free gains from Sale of home. You MUST sell to do THAT! The $59 fares on SWA will not last forever... but I said that 10 yrs ago and have enjoyed many trips / yr since.

Can you get reduced Property tax as 'destitute' senior?
Can you find a pocket of 'low tax' in region and still be close to grands? (I bought a place last yr less that 1 minute from my house... taxes are 1/12th) Different county, different property (but still a few acres w/ house, barns, shop, orchard under $100k), SAME cost basis, Less view less size... I will keep it rented for now... If I can no longer afford Prop taxes, or TSHTF, I can always retreat to the low cost house.

I sold one beautiful place to reap the profits. (back before the current tax code $500k windfall of tax free gains). In retrospect... it was short-sighted on my part. There were better options, had I thought COMPLETELY through the process and evaluated it projecting yrs ahead.

So... in current situation of high property taxes. (but an income tax free state and a beautiful home with great neighbors...)

• I will rent out a guest house on the property and /or RV site to help pay taxes.
• or a PT job to cover taxes (~ 3 months required)
• or a 'win' in the stock market to cover taxes (this is EZ if you DISCIPLINE yourself to say... I need to make $15k (or $7.5k 2x / yr) to pay taxes. HOW can I do that?
• Sell something to cover taxes! (need to downsize anyway)
• Donate house to a charity, and THEY can cover your taxes while you are still living there. (I have specified Equities to Charities, so why not change that to HOUSE?) Some will balk depending on your age and projected demise. AND there are some RULES that must be strictly followed.
• Donate house to KIDS... and THEY can pay taxes while you are still there
• any of many other options

[runswithscissors]

Originally Posted by StealthRabbit

Saved well, (single income ..'hourly' ... i.e. worker bee)
Worked multiple jobs,
Diversified and risky investments. (won a few, lost a few but result far exceeded 34 yrs of 'wage' income)

Retired pre-age 50
Live comfortably but frugally on minimal expenses.
Monthly:
$100/food
0 for fuel (in my 50 mpg car that is 37 yrs old)
$18 / car maint (<$250/yr)
$70 utilities
$1700 Healthcare
$1220 Property taxes ($14,400/yr ... up from $800/yr)
Travel $$$. I spend as much as I can spare. I'm gone 80% of the time and LOVE it (while I'm able). Currently 'working' a temp gig in Thailand. Great to get paid to travel (when you like to travel...)


Moderate climate. Year round gardening is possible (No need for AC in house or car)
Rural. 5 miles to small town (6,000-pop) 15 miles to international airport (which I use a lot.) 20 colleges within 30 minutes.
Hiking / fishing within 5 minutes

Future... It's all a guess... but I will likely be living overseas for access to healthcare for a very ill spouse.
I will keep a few places in USA to 'retreat to'. They are under $100k and all self supporting (rented) / in tax free states / and have a place for me / guests / future caregivers.

Wealth? in what sense?

Those on a 'pension' have a FAR different perspective, approach, and objective to many things in retirement. They may consider themselves less than wealthy... but not laying out $2000/month for HC insurance goes a long ways in stretching out a $1200/month SS check. Available pension / healthcare has far more impact than age or location. Health can go at any minute... insured or not, pension or not. One of my best friend's dad was preparing for his second 'public service retirement'. Had just finished HAND building a beautiful home on a lake... (~ 6 yr project every waking / free hour.)

He made it through the 'Going away lunch', but died while cleaning out his desk. He was 62.

His widow sold the house and moved on....

So all this money/assets and paying 14K in property taxes but no LTC policy? But planning to move out of the COUNTRY for healthcare? This does not compute to me.

Also, no property or car insurance (s)? Not to be picky but $70 pays phone, internet, TV, electric, trash/sewer/water and heating?

The people who die cleaning out their desks are the lucky ones. The ones who get paralyzed with a stroke and rot for years in nursing homes are the ones who never expected it and thought they had everything neatly arranged.

[runswithscissors]

Originally Posted by newenglandgirl

I'd like to have this new thread be a concentration of discussions that are spread among a number of Retirement threads including retiring on a shoestring.

For the average retiree, one who is not wealthy, what are the considerations you're looking at in terms of aging, where you live, how you live, cost considerations for now and the future, healthcare options, etc? Please include your age and state of health in your comments. (Please let us not try to define "wealth"—those who are wealthy and those who are not know their status ).

Retired and took lump sum. I am close to 60, own and operate a dog walking/pet sitting business. I have no plans to stop working any time soon. I've never been sick a day in my life and not on any meds etc.

I own a paid for condo in FL with a small savings and 401K from my corp days. Our association has ample reserves.

IMO, I could live on just Social Security if necessary.

My monthly expenses are around $800-900 :

Healthcare - 0 (paid for life from my former Fortune 100 company - actually Fortune 15 LOL)

Food & supplies $150 - 200 ish (could be less, I don't really know because I stock up and there's business crossover)

LTC policy $250

Homeowners ins $50

real estate taxes $40 (homesteaded and increases capped)

HOA $300

internet $40 (optional, tho, because we have internet in our clubhouses - could live without it except for business)

electric $50

Then whatever I spend on the car ins and gas , which, would not be necessary if I didn't have one. Car ins is $50.00. Gas is applicable to my business so I'm not listing it.

I have not factored in my business income/expenses/taxes/write offs in this list.

I also have some incidental income from some online projects that actually happened by accident IE Zazzle sales etc. I could probably boost that to about a steady >500 per month if I took the time to do so in the future. Right now I'm just too busy working to expand it.

[RiverBird]

Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah

When income no longer equals outgo, you need to reduce outgo.

I retired about a year ago at age 65. At that point, I felt I had enough saved to purchase some land (bought 33 acres) and the building supplies to construct a small ranch if I built it myself...with a little help from family members. That was done over the past spring and summer, with a bunkhouse for visitors. Our location has taxes under $500 per year, and is very rural. It is also off-grid, as are many nearby properties.

Last summer while building, we raised our first flock of broiler chickens, and I had some topsoil delivered which I planted to alfalfa to get a gardening area started this comimg spring, when we move up there to stay. I estimate that, once we get a little more practice, this garden and some small livestock could provide up to 75% of our food supply.

My wife has a pension, we both have SS, and I cashed in my retirement for the land and building. We are not poor by any means, but have always lived frugally. We have an aversion to credit/debt and make no monthly payments on borrowed money. We both feel that borrowed money is toxic for seniors, and leads to much poverty. How anyone can retire while they still have a mortgage, is a mystery to us.

We are both in good health and have private insurance...have been resisting Medicare for over a year now. Not sure how this ACA will affect us down the line, but we would also resist that.

Our next project is to find a small acreage in the south, likely in Tennessee, and park a camper or older trailer on it (also a rural property), for use during the coldest winter months. By keeping expenses low, we hope to fund another 1-2 properties in addition to that, including one near a beach, and one in the mountains.

Interesting situation, sounds great. My only question is, are you both going without any health insurance at all, or are you covered through your wife's pension? Health coverage is a huge consideration.

Curious me....did you wind up building in Maine?

[TheShadow]

Moving to a lower COL state has been a big help too us. We are certainly not "wealthy", but we are doing alright for early retirees. We have pensions that cover all our living costs here in our new state (TN). I calculated we are saving over $7000/year on our taxes, utilities, insurance, vehicle costs, etc. We could save substantially on our housing if we wanted to downsize, which we don't. In TN we are able to afford to live in an upscale community that we could only have dreamed of back in CA. In fact, I don't believe there is a community like this in CA. Because it is a community largely populated by seniors from other states, there is so much bonding and camaraderie amongst fellow transplants that it was easy to make friends. People are very willing to share, and buy and sell things amongst themselves as necessary that most things can be had for reasonable prices. We have purchased or received free needed furniture secondhand, and we've sold or given away unnecessary items like an extra dryer and freezer. It really helps to get assistance at low or no cost from your neighbors! We are almost done outfitting the house and then we will see a lot more savings when we can stop giving so much business to Home Depot...LOL. Moving out of state from CA was probably the best thing we've ever done. We are so happy with the decision and with our successful move, I think it has improved our marriage. Other than our mortgage we are debt-free and have been for about 10 years. We live frugally in some ways (driving 12 year old or older cars for ex.) that allow us to splurge in other ways.

Ani- if it comes down to the transplant list you should be aware that the country is divided up into regions and organs are available within those regions where the patient lives. Some states have a very long list and few available organs. In our area their are few patients and lots of organs, so it is much more likely that your DH would be placed higher on the list. Check into it if you haven't. It could influence where you move to.

[brokensky]

Originally Posted by TheShadow

Ani- if it comes down to the transplant list you should be aware that the country is divided up into regions and organs are available within those regions where the patient lives. Some states have a very long list and few available organs. In our area their are few patients and lots of organs, so it is much more likely that your DH would be placed higher on the list. Check into it if you haven't. It could influence where you move to.

Thank you so much for that info, SHADOW. Surely there is a map of this stuff somewhere . . . I will research it. We are still waiting on the call to let us know if hubby is a candidate and can move ahead to the next step.

[StealthRabbit]

Wow, U-R really mis-informed / low reading comprehension. But legitimate Points so...

Originally Posted by runswithscissors

So all this money/assets and paying 14K in property taxes but no LTC policy? My 'uncapped' LTC is $49/ month - I have had it for YEARS, since I did 32 yrs of elder care for a parent that had a stroke pre-age 50.

But planning to move out of the COUNTRY for healthcare? HC has nothing to do with LTC.. USA Gov abandoned 5 of my 'available affordable' HC options within 3 yrs of my retirement (as they will abandon us all when the true costs of ACA get rolled out) Count on it

Also, no property or car insurance (s)? Of course I have liability insurances and umbrellas (as required by law and for 'good sense')

Not to be picky but $70 pays phone, internet, TV, electric, trash/sewer/water and heating? Land line including dial up ($14), Electric for EVERYTHING else ($53) NO TV, NO Trash, No sewer (free septic, as per 98% of rural America)).. water is from my well (virtually free), Heating is wood from my forest + Passive solar home (I have been building w/ 'free' solar since 1970).

... The ones who get paralyzed with a stroke and rot for years in nursing homes are the ones who never expected it and thought they had everything neatly arranged.

Obviously we are from very different value sets / care / 'sustainable living' realm c-d posters that are rural 'cognizant' have understood my monthly 'spend'), I have NEVER had a Sewer / water trash bill, except for commercial properties, and the I don't pay it, as my Commercial places are leased NNN.

I had the choice at age 18 to stick my disabled parent in a nursing home, but... instead I spent 32 yrs providing that care within my household and a few outside private pay and VA caregivers. Same with friends and family. We care for our own and adjust our lives around the needs of others. Maybe... it is because we are not wealthy enough to be availed to other options This yr I lost 4 disabled relatives and each of their spouses had changed / quit careers / readjusted their lives and homes to care for their 'charges' for over 10 yrs. So next yr we will all have a 'retired-from-caregiving' party while we await our next duties (probably caring for each other).

[TuborgP]

Stealth Rabbit, has been posting here for a good amount of time and has posted often. While his world is very different from mine, I do believe from his many posts I understand it. We could probably all take a little from his life experiences and if we don't understand them or appreciate them at least accept it is his real world and life. I know I do.

[Dean Trails]

I hear "wealthy" cropping up in the posts here. What constitutes wealthy? 5k, 6k, 7k a month? Home paid off and cars?
Perhaps a second home?

Also, as i recall the Social Security was only an assistance as originally envisioned. It was to be supplemented by other pension funds. Somehow it has become the Penison Fund of American. It is now possible to live on it unless you move to say Mexico or some other third world country.

[lenora]

Stealth-
Most of your figures sound about right to me, but please don't tell me you clean your own septic tank as I don't think I could handle that degree of industriousness today. Joking aside, how often is it cleaned and have you had a failure yet?