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Old 02-24-2014, 08:36 AM
 
18,527 posts, read 15,510,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
No easy fix for California's teacher pension crisis - latimes.com

Here's an L.A. Times article explaining the problems with the state's teacher retirement system, which just a few years ago was rock solid. Now, for several reasons including the economic meltdown of 2008, that system is looking shakier, although not in imminent danger. It may be "insolvent in 30 years" if nothing is done, according to the chief executive officer of the system.

My pension is from this system, so naturally I pay attention to it. Well, at least I'll be long dead 30 years from now, but the younger teachers coming through the pipeline right now cannot have that feeling of confidence that I always had in the system.
Depends on interest rates and lifespans for those future retirees, which are inherently unpredictable. Of course that unpredictability is all the more reason NOT to promise very generous payouts!
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:36 AM
 
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It is important to remember that NJ, Illinois and California are not the world and all views on pensions should be seen through the eyes of the worse performing states. As far as the average teacher pension in NJ? The following is a few years old and before recent reforms and was based on 25 years of service which has now been raised. I sorta doubt that reform has increased teacher pension payout as high as is being quoted. Perhaps it has and any linkage would I am certain be appreciated.

Proposed New Jersey public employees pensions, benefits changes | NJ.com

Quote:
Average pension of those retiring now with 25 years of service:

• Police and firefighters: $73,571
• Teachers: $46,486
• State workers: $39,592
Remember teacher contributions were also raised and out of curiosity how much of the teacher pension fund and teachers hard earned contributions are being used to buy municipal bonds and fund government construction efforts etc. I wonder if allowed to invest privately if their funds might go towards a more self serving investment target?
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque NM
2,068 posts, read 2,372,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
Thanks for posting about federal retirement, which I've always understood very poorly. That 1% multiplier seems shockingly low. Is it that low because federal employees subject to that multiplier were also put under Social Security? That way they have the (low) federal pension plus the (low) SS which together (hopefully) make a livable pension? Please clarify, as I want to understand this better.
As NewtoCA explained, you are correct in that part of the rationale for the 1% was that we would pay into and get SS. Another feature was a 401K (called Thrift Savings Plan or TSP) with some government matching. My point was that you would be more motivated to save all you sick leave and apply it to retirement if your multiplier was 2% vs 1%. And as the new federal retirement system did not allow me to apply my sick leave towards retirement until the regs were changed a couple of years ago, I used my sick leave as needed. I have a good retirement system compared to most of the private sector and am thankful for it.
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscman View Post
Good info. This was in California, right?

I think if you were a teacher in NJ and you worked for a good 30 year run your ending salary would be $20k higher. does the same formula work here in the Garden State. Teachers in NJ are paid very well compared to NC where i lived for 20 years before moving back here in 2006.
You raise a question that needs to be clarified. There are two parts to the equation calculating pension benefits. The multiplier which is being discussed and the salary it is being applied to. Which is usually somewhere between the final three-five year average. The multiplier in North Carolina is higher than the multiplier in N.J. and many other states. However the salary it is being applied to is notably lower so the resulting pension may be lower than other states but the percentage of final salary higher. Again I will sound like a broken record and repeat that the trick is to work in a high cost of living area and have your salary public or private reflect that higher cost. That will also impact the amount of money you have to save personally etc etc. Then as many you know are doing move and transport your high COLA based retirement resources to a lower cost of living area like Raleigh, Charlotte or Coastal Carolina etc. Hmmmm now do we tell our friends and neighbors that or do we say in the case of Jersey taxes etc etc. Bisman let me ask you what your current salary convert to on a scale in most parts of N.C?
So to compare teacher salaries in Jersey with NC is really not fair. I have a son and family that lives and work in Northern Virginia and prior to that San Francisco and make tons of money and chose each location to work because of the high COLA and resulting salary and can use that to save and invest a boatload etc etc. They have friends from college who settled in high COLA areas for the same reasons. So yes teachers in Jersey are paid very well compared to NC but so are most people probably including you and it is probably reflected in your home equity also which is boosted by those high salaries. I know the game and it is ok to profit from it I am just open about it. Not trying to be negative but I was born and raised in Jersey and came to NC from a real high cost area and know the game well as did many of my neighbors.
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Old 02-24-2014, 11:01 AM
 
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It should be noted that a number of younger public sector employees want out of their pension plans and feel with the increased contributions and reduced benefits they could do better on their own and own their results.
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Old 02-24-2014, 01:15 PM
 
Location: SoCal desert
8,091 posts, read 15,396,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalara
It was definitely part of mine.
I was not a teacher or admin - I worked in the business office.
I knew from day one that unused sick leave could be converted to service credit. In my district's contract, SL was indefinitely cumulative, vacation was capped after a certain amount was saved. And we're offered a choice of cashing out or service credit. I wasn't one to call in sick - I wanted that service credit!
Did you get to cash out vacation time also? If so sweet and prudence paid off.
Yes, we got paid for vacation accrued when we terminated or retired. In my district it was capped at 240 hours (6 weeks) vacation time for all employees - from the lowest paid staff to the tenured faculty to the college president. Once you hit the 240, you couldn't earn anymore until you took some time off. The workaholics hated it

(After posting last night, it bugged me I couldn't remember the time limit. So I searched and found my old contract, LOL )
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Old 02-24-2014, 01:55 PM
 
1,168 posts, read 2,492,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
You raise a question that needs to be clarified. There are two parts to the equation calculating pension benefits. The multiplier which is being discussed and the salary it is being applied to. Which is usually somewhere between the final three-five year average. The multiplier in North Carolina is higher than the multiplier in N.J. and many other states. However the salary it is being applied to is notably lower so the resulting pension may be lower than other states but the percentage of final salary higher. Again I will sound like a broken record and repeat that the trick is to work in a high cost of living area and have your salary public or private reflect that higher cost. That will also impact the amount of money you have to save personally etc etc. Then as many you know are doing move and transport your high COLA based retirement resources to a lower cost of living area like Raleigh, Charlotte or Coastal Carolina etc. Hmmmm now do we tell our friends and neighbors that or do we say in the case of Jersey taxes etc etc. Bisman let me ask you what your current salary convert to on a scale in most parts of N.C?
So to compare teacher salaries in Jersey with NC is really not fair. I have a son and family that lives and work in Northern Virginia and prior to that San Francisco and make tons of money and chose each location to work because of the high COLA and resulting salary and can use that to save and invest a boatload etc etc. They have friends from college who settled in high COLA areas for the same reasons. So yes teachers in Jersey are paid very well compared to NC but so are most people probably including you and it is probably reflected in your home equity also which is boosted by those high salaries. I know the game and it is ok to profit from it I am just open about it. Not trying to be negative but I was born and raised in Jersey and came to NC from a real high cost area and know the game well as did many of my neighbors.
Tuborg, I don't begrudge anyone of knowing the rules of the game, playing the game, and benefitting from the game. Its Legal and don't begrudge anyone. Oh yea, i am sure you know this but Teachers are paid very well in NJ and it is relative to what we pay in Real Estate Taxes compared what one would pay for Real Estate Taxes in Charlotte. Everything is relative and congrats on your exodus from the Garden State.

Something is wrong when you have a 3000 sq foot home in Westfield NJ and your taxes are $26,000 annually. Granted they have a great School system but I repeat. $26,000 Real Estate taxes a year, every year, year in year out........

I'm right behind ya!!!!!!
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,017 posts, read 20,869,471 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
You raise a question that needs to be clarified. There are two parts to the equation calculating pension benefits. The multiplier which is being discussed and the salary it is being applied to. Which is usually somewhere between the final three-five year average. The multiplier in North Carolina is higher than the multiplier in N.J. and many other states. However the salary it is being applied to is notably lower so the resulting pension may be lower than other states but the percentage of final salary higher. Again I will sound like a broken record and repeat that the trick is to work in a high cost of living area and have your salary public or private reflect that higher cost. That will also impact the amount of money you have to save personally etc etc. Then as many you know are doing move and transport your high COLA based retirement resources to a lower cost of living area like Raleigh, Charlotte or Coastal Carolina etc. Hmmmm now do we tell our friends and neighbors that or do we say in the case of Jersey taxes etc etc. Bisman let me ask you what your current salary convert to on a scale in most parts of N.C?
So to compare teacher salaries in Jersey with NC is really not fair. I have a son and family that lives and work in Northern Virginia and prior to that San Francisco and make tons of money and chose each location to work because of the high COLA and resulting salary and can use that to save and invest a boatload etc etc. They have friends from college who settled in high COLA areas for the same reasons. So yes teachers in Jersey are paid very well compared to NC but so are most people probably including you and it is probably reflected in your home equity also which is boosted by those high salaries. I know the game and it is ok to profit from it I am just open about it. Not trying to be negative but I was born and raised in Jersey and came to NC from a real high cost area and know the game well as did many of my neighbors.

The above is a good, sophisticated look at things which attempts to look at all the factors involved. As you say, comparing percentage multipliers from state to state is only one parameter of retirement and will be misleading unless we also look at other things such as the salary the multiplier is being applied to, the percent which the teachers themselves are paying via salary deduction, and even the age and years of service required to reach a certain multiplier. For example (and I already posted this upthread), in Calif. the multiplier is 1.4% if a teacher retires at age 55, but it rises to a maximum of 2.4% at age 63 (or age 61.5 with 30 or more years of service). Another factor which is often overlooked: are there health benefits for life involved with the pension? (No, in Calif.)
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:22 PM
 
31,680 posts, read 40,970,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscman View Post
Tuborg, I don't begrudge anyone of knowing the rules of the game, playing the game, and benefitting from the game. Its Legal and don't begrudge anyone. Oh yea, i am sure you know this but Teachers are paid very well in NJ and it is relative to what we pay in Real Estate Taxes compared what one would pay for Real Estate Taxes in Charlotte. Everything is relative and congrats on your exodus from the Garden State.

Something is wrong when you have a 3000 sq foot home in Westfield NJ and your taxes are $26,000 annually. Granted they have a great School system but I repeat. $26,000 Real Estate taxes a year, every year, year in year out........

I'm right behind ya!!!!!!
You raise the point I came on to make. Compare that to living in a 3000 sq ft home and paying $2,500 in property taxes but 15K in private school tuition because the public schools suck as most do in N.C. The state right now has a 14% annual teacher turnover rate and unfilled jobs in many schools especially Math and Science. Along with good schools comes higher taxes and usually greater home equity appreciation. I know that deal and how much of a commute do you want teachers to make so the can afford a place to live on the salary you want.

http://www.city-data.com/income/inco...ew-Jersey.html

Median household income in Westfield in 2009:
Westfield:
$126,131
State:
$68,342

And you begrudge the person teaching your 70K? How and where do you expect them to work on NC wages. What Math teacher is going to accept a starting salary of 35K when they could make how much in Westfield or don't you still want the top tier of teachers in your classrooms? It is supply/demand and quality is far exceeded by the demand for.

As with most people and places. Paying for great schools was worth it when our kids were in them but once they graduate do I still value it for those who follow? Just so the readers know how much would that referenced 3,000 sq ft house sell for and how much of a draw is the school system to get folks to pay it?
http://www.city-data.com/nbmaps/neig...ew-Jersey.html
broken down by neighborhood but big bucks average house cost.

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/income/inco...#ixzz2uHF0Q6dI

Last edited by TuborgP; 02-24-2014 at 02:36 PM..
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,017 posts, read 20,869,471 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscman View Post
Something is wrong when you have a 3000 sq foot home in Westfield NJ and your taxes are $26,000 annually. Granted they have a great School system but I repeat. $26,000 Real Estate taxes a year, every year, year in year out........!
I agree that your property taxes are outrageous. High property taxes are doubtless one factor contributing to the resentment of public employee pensions by the average non-public employee taxpayer. It is also quite understandable why retirees flock to the exits in states/areas such as New York City, New Jersey, and many parts of California.

I myself could have much more house for the same money or alternatively, pay much less money for the same house, in many other places if I were to leave Southern California. But I chose to stay here in full realization of that fact because I love it here (for many reasons which would be off-topic) and I can live here in reasonable frugality without struggling financially. I don't desire more house, and I don't really desire more money either. That may sound insane, as I am solidly middle class at best, but I have created a lifestyle which I find very gratifying and which includes some minor luxuries. I don't know what I would do with more money, as I abhor waste and would not buy designer clothes (just by way of example) even if I were Donald Trump or Bill Gates. Again, I'm sure many posters will be convinced I am insane, but I don't much care about that either.
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